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Post by julesd68 on Jul 18, 2020 23:48:07 GMT
Ah yes that does ring a bell - my brain is working very slowly in the heat!
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Post by jandl100 on Jul 19, 2020 4:48:53 GMT
Back to preamps. I wonder if anyone has tried a Creek passive in their preamp travels? Yup, waaay back in time when they were a fairly new thing. Surprisingly good. A real taste of open, detailed transparency. I've no idea what I'd think now, but I was surprised and impressed back then.
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Post by Mr Whippy on Jul 19, 2020 6:35:51 GMT
It's a dinky little thing with remote control. Had a very good rep back in the day. Features an ALPS Blue Velvet potentiometer - don't know if this a good or bad thing ... Well, i am firmly in the camp of Alps Blues being a huge bottleneck, but some very well known designer guys like Tim DP, would argue it and have, but its been a regular occurance, that replacing them with a decent TKD or stepped attenuator will give a notable upgrade to the transparency A simple and genuine question: When you've tried it, are sure it has been the genuine ALPS article? Any number of fakes are bought and fitted under the belief it's the genuine item. Ask Rabski over on WAM, and he's hardly a novice diyer.
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Post by bigman80 on Jul 19, 2020 7:38:02 GMT
Well, i am firmly in the camp of Alps Blues being a huge bottleneck, but some very well known designer guys like Tim DP, would argue it and have, but its been a regular occurance, that replacing them with a decent TKD or stepped attenuator will give a notable upgrade to the transparency A simple and genuine question: When you've tried it, are sure it has been the genuine ALPS article? Any number of fakes are bought and fitted under the belief it's the genuine item. Ask Rabski over on WAM, and he's hardly a novice diyer. I have seen multiple fakes and sent them back, but the first one I swapped was originally in an EAR pre of some sort. It was the first time I realise that High End audio was not all it seemed! I didnt see the original unit, but the Alps blue was given to me for a passive pre i was building. I hadn't tried a stepped attenuator before so quickly bought a Khozmo once I read of their existence. The difference in transparency between the two was not subtle. I have had many alps pots through here, maybe 6? and they've all been removed from genuine articles. I have had fakes too, undoubtedly but I am confident that the original Alps Blue that I compared was real. There is a page somewhere that has direct visual comparisons between genuine ones and fake ones. I have used it to check a fair few.
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Post by John on Jul 19, 2020 7:40:47 GMT
I am sure Oliver has sourced the genuine article
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Post by Mr Whippy on Jul 19, 2020 8:33:58 GMT
I am sure Oliver has sourced the genuine article Decades ago, it was a simple matter of what you got - was the genuine thing. Less so now - depending upon where it's sourced from.
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Post by Mr Whippy on Jul 19, 2020 9:22:47 GMT
I am sure Oliver has sourced the genuine article You can buy the genuine item from Hi-Fi Collective - or eBay - if you know what to look for.
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Post by julesd68 on Jul 19, 2020 16:16:38 GMT
Here's something I have wondered about for some time. There really isn't much inside a passive pre, that being the whole point of it of course. So why are some of them so insanely expensive?? I think I am more likely to get something made from scratch to my spec ...
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Post by Mr Whippy on Jul 19, 2020 19:12:16 GMT
Why indeed? Yonks ago, the Cello Etude, with the case Mr B has a fancy for (it is nice. You can get it in 2 versions. The other has a sloping front panel and greater in length) was considered outrageously expensive at £400, I think. Hi-Fi World reviewed it. In it's defence, it did have a quality stepped attenuator. I don't suppose a £400 passive preamp is considered "expensive" now. www.remusic.it/EN/Shootout-Test-Eleven-Passive-Preamps-with-Transformers-8e1d2000
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Post by julesd68 on Jul 19, 2020 20:37:25 GMT
Yep you can spend a couple of grand on a passive today.
I like to know / see what I’m getting so am rather suspicious of sweeping statements like this I saw earlier -
‘Our beautifully custom machined aluminum chassis, knobs, stainless steel hardware reflect the quality of circuitry inside'
er, but there were no pics of what’s inside!
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Post by ChrisB on Jul 20, 2020 6:40:51 GMT
Why indeed? Yonks ago, the Cello Etude, with the case Mr B has a fancy for (it is nice. You can get it in 2 versions. The other has a sloping front panel and greater in length) was considered outrageously expensive at £400, I think. Hi-Fi World reviewed it. In it's defence, it did have a quality stepped attenuator. I don't suppose a £400 passive preamp is considered "expensive" now. www.remusic.it/EN/Shootout-Test-Eleven-Passive-Preamps-with-Transformers-8e1d2000I believe it may have been £700. It was before Hifi World was a twinkle in Noel Keywood's eye. I have a copy of Hifi Answers with a review of it.
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Post by bigman80 on Jul 20, 2020 9:10:53 GMT
Why indeed? Yonks ago, the Cello Etude, with the case Mr B has a fancy for (it is nice. You can get it in 2 versions. The other has a sloping front panel and greater in length) was considered outrageously expensive at £400, I think. Hi-Fi World reviewed it. In it's defence, it did have a quality stepped attenuator. I don't suppose a £400 passive preamp is considered "expensive" now. www.remusic.it/EN/Shootout-Test-Eleven-Passive-Preamps-with-Transformers-8e1d2000Yes, i absolutely have a fancy for it...its very handsome and very reasonably priced I've seen the sloping front one...i wasn't as keen
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Post by bigman80 on Jul 20, 2020 9:16:25 GMT
Here's something I have wondered about for some time. There really isn't much inside a passive pre, that being the whole point of it of course. So why are some of them so insanely expensive?? I think I am more likely to get something made from scratch to my spec ... A lot of the manufacturers sink large sums into the casework, which is where most of the cost comes from. I'm going to be building a preamp soon and usually, the cost for the case is where you spend 1/3 of the budget. I think I'm going to build my own stepped attenuator too. I have a tip on resistors to try and they are super cheap. Nothing ventured etc
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Post by Mr Whippy on Jul 20, 2020 9:23:53 GMT
Why indeed? Yonks ago, the Cello Etude, with the case Mr B has a fancy for (it is nice. You can get it in 2 versions. The other has a sloping front panel and greater in length) was considered outrageously expensive at £400, I think. Hi-Fi World reviewed it. In it's defence, it did have a quality stepped attenuator. I don't suppose a £400 passive preamp is considered "expensive" now. www.remusic.it/EN/Shootout-Test-Eleven-Passive-Preamps-with-Transformers-8e1d2000I believe it may have been £700. It was before Hifi World was a twinkle in Noel Keywood's eye. I have a copy of Hifi Answers with a review of it. Thank You. I don't mind admitting to being wrong. I have it myself. I was too lazy to go and hunt it out to check. Just goes to show how one's memory isn't always as accurate as one might imagine. Older than I thought it was.
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Post by Mr Whippy on Jul 20, 2020 9:30:22 GMT
Just to add.
I did actually have the two publications in mind. Decided it was Hi-Fi World as I didn't think it was old as it is.
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Post by ChrisB on Jul 20, 2020 10:28:26 GMT
May 1989 issue. Cover price £1.60! Front cover splash: How Much?! This passive preamp costs £795. Why?
Page 53. Heading: Cello Etude This passive preamp costs £795. Does it raise performance to new heights, or High End-manship to new levels of absurdity? Keith Howard.
It had a 59 position switch with a resistor network made of undisclosed resistor types. There were 4 inputs connected to a switch with gold plated contacts and a single pair of output sockets. He found it lacking in comparison to the £30 Hifi Answers 'Hot Pot', which used a pair of DNM plastic pots.
Summary: "The specific conclusion of this review, is that the Etude cannot be recommended. More than that I care not to say about the product, it's price, and those who make and sell it. Each reader can draw his own conclusions there. But I will observe how, yet again, HFA finds cause to question the presumptions which motivate and guide the design of such expensive products. The Etude should be, as any high end product, a benchmark that though enjoyed by the few can be admired by the many. That it so obviously falls short of that measure is a cause for concern. It deals the image of high end in particular, and quality hifi in general, another blow it could well do without".
One thing I liked about HFA was the manufacturer was always given a right of reply and Mark Levinson himself replied in the 'Comeback' section of that same issue. He described the process of comparison that they carried out with lot of other passives available at the time, comparing playback of master tapes both directly into power amps and via the passive under test. They were chasing the high end pro market more than enthusiasts and were looking for accuracy.
I think Keith Howard may have been (subconsciously) pursuit of 'flavour' rather than fidelity.
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Post by bigman80 on Jul 20, 2020 10:32:00 GMT
May 1989 issue. Cover price £1.60! Front cover splash: How Much?! This passive preamp costs £795. Why?Page 53. Heading: Cello EtudeThis passive preamp costs £795. Does it raise performance to new heights, or High End-manship to new levels of absurdity? Keith Howard.It had a 59 position switch with a resistor network made of undisclosed resistor types. There were 4 inputs connected to a switch with gold plated contacts and a single pair of output sockets. He found it lacking in comparison to the £30 Hifi Answers 'Hot Pot', which used a pair of DNM plastic pots. Summary: "The specific conclusion of this review, is that the Etude cannot be recommended. More than that I care not to say about the product, it's price, and those who make and sell it. Each reader can draw his own conclusions there. But I will observe how, yet again, HFA finds cause to question the presumptions which motivate and guide the design of such expensive products. The Etude should be, as any high end product, a benchmark that though enjoyed by the few can be admired by the many. That it so obviously falls short of that measure is a cause for concern. It deals the image of high end in particular, and quality hifi in general, another blow it could well do without".
One thing I liked about HFA was the manufacturer was always given a right of reply and Mark Levinson himself replied in the 'Comeback' section of that same issue. He described the process of comparison that they carried out with lot of other passives available at the time, comparing playback of master tapes both directly into power amps and via the passive under test. They were chasing the high end pro market more than enthusiasts and were looking for accuracy. I think Keith Howard may have been (subconsciously) pursuit of 'flavour' rather than fidelity. www.remusic.it/newpopupgalle.php?id_gallery=208&id_blk=&cnt_img=2&lng=1&rif=a0ce7de3a6The Cello Etude is cack. I just like the box lol
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Post by bigman80 on Jul 20, 2020 10:35:18 GMT
I thought was expensive earlier lol
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Post by MartinT on Jul 20, 2020 11:06:44 GMT
Well, you certainly don't get much for your money there.
The least they could have done is put a buffer in there rather than leave the impedances down to the vagaries of the connecting equipment. That's what I don't like about passive preamps.
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Post by bigman80 on Jul 20, 2020 11:08:52 GMT
Well, you certainly don't get much for your money there. The least they could have done is put a buffer in there rather than leave the impedances down to the vagaries of the connecting equipment. That's what I don't like about passive preamps. Yup...i like the transparency and soundstage of a good passive but the lack of drive always bothered me, hence the new buffer preamp I'm building. Makes the vagaries a none issue.
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