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Post by julesd68 on Jul 14, 2020 19:50:12 GMT
The singing of Rule Britannia at the Proms should be next for the chop according to a new petition -
< Drop the song ‘Rule Britannia', written in 1740 at the height of British slavery, as it is offensive in today's society.
Why is this important?
The lyrics written in 1740 were for a totally different audience. Just as statues and the names of buildings are being reviewed, we must review our music as well. This song is offensive. We live in a multicultural world where Black Lives Matter and this message must be heard in music too. >
I'm not a great one for Rule Britannia but surely the vast majority of those singing this are not harking back to the time when Britain really did rule the waves??
I suspect it's 'Britains never will be slaves' is the bone of contention here.
So what do we do?
I've set up a poll for interest.
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Post by jandl100 on Jul 14, 2020 19:53:59 GMT
Rule, Britannia!
Lyrics
Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves!
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.
When Britain first, at heaven's command,
Arose from out the azure main,
This was the charter of the land,
And Guardian Angels sang this strain:
(Chorus)
The nations not so blest as thee
Must, in their turn, to tyrants fall,
While thou shalt flourish great and free:
The dread and envy of them all.
(Chorus)
Still more majestic shalt thou rise,
More dreadful from each foreign stroke,
As the loud blast that tears the skies
Serves but to root thy native oak.
(Chorus)
Thee haughty tyrants ne'er shall tame;
All their attempts to bend thee down
Will but arouse thy generous flame,
But work their woe and thy renown.
(Chorus)
To thee belongs the rural reign;
Thy cities shall with commerce shine;
All thine shall be the subject main,
And every shore it circles, thine.
(Chorus)
The Muses, still with freedom found,
Shall to thy happy coasts repair.
Blest isle! with matchless beauty crowned,
And manly hearts to guard the fair.
(Chorus)
Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves!
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.
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Post by jandl100 on Jul 14, 2020 19:58:30 GMT
Looks OK to me. Standing up to tyrants. Good job. But we need our own woke Paul Slinger to tell us how terribly everything-ist it is.  |
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Post by Clive on Jul 14, 2020 20:16:02 GMT
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.
We were in Roman times so the words are reasonable. Or have I got this wrong?
History vs heritage; how do you disentangle the two?
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Post by Slinger on Jul 14, 2020 20:19:11 GMT
Somebody has seen the word " slaves" and without checking for... oh... I don't know... context(?) has jumped on the current juggernaut disguised as a bandwagon. What a complete and utter load of bollocks. It means what it means; the inhabitants of this land, as a whole, shall never bow (or even take a knee) to foreign invaders. Complete and utter codswallop, of course it should be played at the Proms, it's tradition. And yes, the 3 ellipses were revenge for jandl100 calling me "woke" |
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Post by jandl100 on Jul 14, 2020 20:26:54 GMT
Nah, I only get my axe out when the ellipses are left hanging ...
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Post by MartinT on Jul 14, 2020 21:22:37 GMT
Nothing to see here. Move along...
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Post by julesd68 on Jul 14, 2020 21:46:46 GMT
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Post by MartinT on Jul 15, 2020 7:14:13 GMT
This doesn't give much hope:
"The outgoing Director-General, Lord Hall, used to run the Royal Opera House, but Tim Davie, his successor, is CEO of BBC Studios — a bean-counting role. It does not inspire confidence that he will preserve the Corporation’s musical legacy."
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Post by jachawk on Jul 15, 2020 8:51:17 GMT
In my view you keep all these reminders of the past coz that's what they are, reminders of what people have done before us good or bad, if you tear down statues and get rid of songs because they act as reminders of slavery for instance, then in not many generations that history is forgotten as are the lessons we learned from it. That's probably a bit controversial i know but look at Germany after WW2, school children were not taught about the horrors and the genocide carried out by Hitler and when they did find out about what had happened couldn't believe it.
It's all political correctness gone wrong!!!!
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 15, 2020 9:13:40 GMT
Like anything it can be hijacked by gits
Both the English and British flags have been used by gits. Still *my* flags.
Keep it and tell them to keep their grubby mits off
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Post by julesd68 on Jul 15, 2020 9:40:02 GMT
In my view you keep all these reminders of the past coz that's what they are, reminders of what people have done before us good or bad Agreed 100%. They can be a very important part of education for the next generation. |
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Post by MartinT on Jul 15, 2020 12:00:06 GMT
In my view you keep all these reminders of the past coz that's what they are, reminders of what people have done before us good or bad, if you tear down statues and get rid of songs because they act as reminders of slavery for instance, then in not many generations that history is forgotten as are the lessons we learned from it. That's probably a bit controversial i know but look at Germany after WW2, school children were not taught about the horrors and the genocide carried out by Hitler and when they did find out about what had happened couldn't believe it. I can cite an example from today. A question asked on Quora was "Did Britain do much during WW2?" This from an American. I did a double-take, so bizarre was the question. It seems that the US curriculum just doesn't cover much non-US history. Is it any wonder that Neo-Nazi groups are springing up everywhere, if the education system doesn't teach them what happened? |
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Post by julesd68 on Jul 15, 2020 12:40:36 GMT
Let's look at the lyrics of La Marseillaise. It's normally the first verse and chorus that is sung.
It was written in direct response to wars at the time and due to revolutionary connotations has been in and out of use since.
< Arise, children of the Fatherland
Our day of glory has arrived
Against us the bloody flag of tyranny
is raised; the bloody flag is raised.
Do you hear, in the countryside
The roar of those ferocious soldiers?
They’re coming right into your arms
To cut the throats of your sons, your comrades!
To arms, citizens!
Form your battalions
Let’s march, let’s march
That their impure blood
Should water our fields. >
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Post by Slinger on Jul 15, 2020 12:59:54 GMT
In my view you keep all these reminders of the past coz that's what they are, reminders of what people have done before us good or bad, if you tear down statues and get rid of songs because they act as reminders of slavery for instance, then in not many generations that history is forgotten as are the lessons we learned from it. That's probably a bit controversial i know but look at Germany after WW2, school children were not taught about the horrors and the genocide carried out by Hitler and when they did find out about what had happened couldn't believe it. I can cite an example from today. A question asked on Quora was "Did Britain do much during WW2?" This from an American.I did a double-take, so bizarre was the question. It seems that the US curriculum just doesn't cover much non-US history. Is it any wonder that Neo-Nazi groups are springing up everywhere, if the education system doesn't teach them what happened? Citing Quora as a source is about on a par with citing The Onion, or Mad Magazine.  It is full of questions so ludicrous they beggar belief. For some reason it gets dumped in one of my email inboxes and I skim the visible portion with dismay on a regular basis before deleting it. [EDIT] There's one in there now, here are some examples: What do teenagers hide on their phones?
Is Queen Elizabeth II abdicating at 95?
My son just sits in his room all day and watches TikTok. How should I discipline him?
Is a 17 year old sleeping with a 30 year old illegal in the UK?
What is the result of 3+3×3+3=?
My mother was an awful parent. Now she's trying to make up for it by being close to my children. I don't want to let her. What should I do?
What's the most savage thing anybody ever said in history?and my favourite from today: What made you realize that you needed to protect the world from your child, not your child from the world? The world is full of sad, ill-informed loons. Quora is where they seem to congregate, and possibly breed. By the way, was your chap talking about the 1942-1945 war? |
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Post by MartinT on Jul 15, 2020 13:59:13 GMT
The one good thing about Quora is that it is a litmus test of many people's intelligence!
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Post by MartinT on Jul 15, 2020 14:00:38 GMT
By the way, was your chap talking about the 1942-1945 war? LOL! |
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Post by julesd68 on Aug 24, 2020 19:57:41 GMT
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Post by Slinger on Aug 24, 2020 20:53:39 GMT
I'm sure I remember Willard White singing "Old Man River," at the Proms. That'll be banned now.
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Post by MartinT on Aug 24, 2020 20:55:15 GMT
PC gone mad. The anthemic songs of most nations are grisly, but that's history.
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It is full of questions so ludicrous they beggar belief. For some reason it gets dumped in one of my email inboxes and I skim the visible portion with dismay on a regular basis before deleting it.