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Post by MikeMusic on Feb 28, 2020 11:29:45 GMT
Interesting to see PS Audio's Paul McGowan post today about burn in
Copied in entirety
Is burn in real?
I had to chuckle to myself. Sitting in our weekly meeting, where production engineers meet with design engineers, the topic of discussion was how to build a new burn-in rack and system for the upcoming M1200 monoblock amplifiers.
What made me laugh is all the time and money we’re spending setting up a rack whose only purpose is to make sure when owners first turn on their new amplifier it sounds right. That’s a bunch of needless expense if burn-in weren’t real.
In fact, the new M1200s require more burn-in time than any product we’ve yet manufactured. We’re still debating not the number of hours, but rather the number of days. The discussions even include what track of music to use for best results. Sound silly? Not really. The average energy level of reproduced music has a direct impact on the improvements we desire to make. A quiet musical piece wouldn’t be nearly as effective as a loud one.
Since we’re not in the habit of needlessly incurring expenses, those who doubt the efficacy of burn might be well served to take notice.
Burn-in matters.
I always listen to what Paul has to say
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Post by MartinT on Feb 28, 2020 11:38:09 GMT
Many of us have been saying the same thing. It's remarkable how it differs between components. My old Sony SCD-1 SACD player was notorious for needing around 500 hours to come good. That's nearly three weeks!
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Post by MikeMusic on Feb 28, 2020 11:47:27 GMT
My Naim kit was off for a week or two after the service with components replaced
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Post by Slinger on Feb 28, 2020 12:57:08 GMT
THe phrase "burn in" always sounds wrong to me, but I can cope with components "settling in."
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Post by MartinT on Feb 28, 2020 13:05:17 GMT
Wikipedia has it about right...
With car engines it's called running-in. It's all the same thing but in electronic terms it's more about 'forming' capacitors rather than sealing the lining of cylinders or wearing the bearing faces smooth.
Perhaps 'reaching optimal performance' is a better way to express it.
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Post by MikeMusic on Feb 28, 2020 13:33:35 GMT
There is also feeling more at home  |
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Post by MartinT on Feb 28, 2020 14:20:04 GMT
No, I don't believe burn-in is psychological, it's a very real process.
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Post by speedysteve on Feb 28, 2020 17:07:49 GMT
Personally I believe it's of big impact to moving parts -
For example cartridges and speaker cones in sound systems👍
Less so in electrical components, but there🧐
Non existent in things like cable lifters, racks, strategically placed crystals and stones, and grounding boxes etc 😂
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Post by Firebottle on Feb 29, 2020 9:06:31 GMT
Wikipedia has it about right... With car engines it's called running-in. It's all the same thing but in electronic terms it's more about 'forming' capacitors rather than sealing the lining of cylinders or wearing the bearing faces smooth. Perhaps 'reaching optimal performance' is a better way to express it. Reaching Optimal Performance, that's ROP isn't it. Just hope it didn't happen Yesterday. |
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Post by julesd68 on Feb 29, 2020 9:37:05 GMT
I reckon the only new items I can honestly say I have heard improve are cartridges and tubes ...
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Post by MikeMusic on Feb 29, 2020 10:52:05 GMT
Having the same favourite albums being played constantly is a great guide.
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Post by speedysteve on Feb 29, 2020 15:13:39 GMT
I reckon the only new items I can honestly say I have heard improve are cartridges and tubes ... If you get a pair of say 15" Tannoy drivers re-edged (the concertina hard edge ring around the cone), you will hear it take days to get your bass response back. The HPD foam surrounds have break in time but much less.. |
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Post by julesd68 on Feb 29, 2020 15:42:06 GMT
I wouldn't doubt that for a moment Steve - in my case I was just referring to what I have experience of...
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Post by Slinger on Feb 29, 2020 17:23:26 GMT
Pretty much any "machine" needs time to let its moving parts settle in and work together. The question is, do electrons constitute moving parts?
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Post by MikeMusic on Feb 29, 2020 17:27:14 GMT
Internals appear to vibrate
Think it was Paul McGowan who said any piece of wire with current running through would settle with the direction and improve
Can't point to it
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Post by MartinT on Feb 29, 2020 18:30:33 GMT
The process of capacitors forming is a known one and greatest in electrolytics. They can take a while to reach their maximum performance.
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Post by John on Feb 29, 2020 19:02:18 GMT
My experience has been varied. Year's ago I upgraded a Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista 3d cd player. It now had black cat capacitors a new super clock and major work done to its power regulators. It took 500 hours to burn-in.
My Temple Monos sounded good right away.
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Post by MartinT on Feb 29, 2020 21:27:47 GMT
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Post by Slinger on Feb 29, 2020 21:52:56 GMT
When I started noticing differences in the way my system sounded while trying out five different USB cables, and then even more changes when those cables had been in situ for some time, I gave up all hope of ever having another rational-to-me opinion about hifi. My "epiphany" was, of course, compounded by the fact that I was only squirting ones and zeroes down a wire, not even proper sounds.
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