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Post by savvypaul on Aug 16, 2019 14:51:35 GMT
PS: I'd like to say that I know it must be difficult when the 'other' side has done/said nothing, which is disappointing too. Sorry, not sure exactly what you mean, Mikey. |
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Post by savvypaul on Aug 16, 2019 14:58:31 GMT
Nothing has been gained by archiving it and locking it? Of course there has been some gain, but not as much as would be gained by getting rid of it all together. I actually can't believe in this day and age that people can actually write some of the stuff that appears there and be pleased with themselves, it's so sad. How can we fix the world when this sort of thing goes on in what is supposed to be HiFi Forums. I only made the suggestion, whether you think it's a good idea is totally up to you, but I suspect you won't gain many new neutral members if they read that thread first. Hi Mikey, Thank you for acknowledging and welcoming that significant progress has been made. Archiving it and locking it is not everything you wanted. I acknowledge and understand that. But, just as importantly, archiving it and locking it is not what it's participants wanted. Yep. I agree, it's only hi-fi. Maybe, in the future, everyone will remember that (at least, most of the time). I appreciate your feedback, regardless of whether we are of the same mind or not. All the best, Paul |
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Post by ChrisB on Aug 16, 2019 15:03:36 GMT
I do not want this to turn into an inter forum argument, and you quite plainly want the same.
However, just speaking for members of this forum, your choice of action means that unfounded accusations of dishonesty, corruption and illegal behaviour which were made will remain there in public view. The same goes for the, impossible to count, personal insults. I have never seen an apology for any of this, or even an acceptance from anyone that they were even in the slightest bit out of order.
Unlike HFS' relationships with several other fora, none of this has been as a result of our retaliation - we do not counter attack when shit is thrown at us from elsewhere.
As for recinding bans, that is unlikely to happen. When we launched, we allowed membership to all, regardless of history. We didn't have to, we chose to be fair and reasonable and to trust people to behave like adults. Some people chose to continue to behave as children and were banned Bans have been made because reasonable rules have been broken. We never banned anyone for what they said elsewhere, and by crikey, we could have been forgiven for doing so as a result of some of the things said elsewhere.
You will do what you consider to be best for your forum and business. That's fine and I wish you well, but some things have been said that should not have been said and to leave them in public view is not something some people will thank you for.
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Post by mikeyb on Aug 16, 2019 15:26:15 GMT
PS: I'd like to say that I know it must be difficult when the 'other' side has done/said nothing, which is disappointing too. Sorry, not sure exactly what you mean, Mikey. PM sent 😉 |
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Post by John on Aug 16, 2019 15:40:22 GMT
Thanks for your input Paul
Like Chris, I do not want to inflame things I like many people thought it was going to be hidden to the public. It should be possible to just allow members to see it. This would go a long way to healing the past.
I have a few thoughts
1 We have never banned NVA form being spoken about.
2 We have never been rude lied or trolled any of your forum members
3 Any member we banned We banned as we were pushed into When we set up the forum we allowed access to everyone
4 We always took a stance that we did not want to be part of any forum wars
To be honest I am not sure we have allowed this thread to happen if we knew that EOTW was going to be visible.
The members that we had to ban has made it quite clear that they do not want to post here.
I personally have nothing against NVA or your Forum apart from EOTW I can understand you find yourself having to make hard decisions and really hope we can find a way to heal the past.
Like the rest of the team, I have never wanted to be part in a forum war.
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Post by savvypaul on Aug 16, 2019 16:42:51 GMT
I do not want this to turn into an inter forum argument, and you quite plainly want the same. However, just speaking for members of this forum, your choice of action means that unfounded accusations of dishonesty, corruption and illegal behaviour which were made will remain there in public view. The same goes for the, impossible to count, personal insults. I have never seen an apology for any of this, or even an acceptance from anyone that they were even in the slightest bit out of order. Unlike HFS' relationships with several other fora, none of this has been as a result of our retaliation - we do not counter attack when shit is thrown at us from elsewhere. As for recinding bans, that is unlikely to happen. When we launched, we allowed membership to all, regardless of history. We didn't have to, we chose to be fair and reasonable and to trust people to behave like adults. Some people chose to continue to behave as children and were banned Bans have been made because reasonable rules have been broken. We never banned anyone for what they said elsewhere, and by crikey, we could have been forgiven for doing so as a result of some of the things said elsewhere. You will do what you consider to be best for your forum and business. That's fine and I wish you well, but some things have been said that should not have been said and to leave them in public view is not something some people will thank you for. Hi Chris, I understand that feelings run deep, and I'm certainly not looking for an inter forum argument. I have stated that I do not condone personal abuse and I have acted to ensure that it does not continue. I appreciate it is not the full extent of what you would like to happen. I have given a 'Day 1' amnesty at HFS. That amnesty is unconditional, it is a clean sheet, regardless of what has been said in the past. But, I don't demand, expect or attempt to influence your own forum policies. Thank you for your good wishes and thank you for taking time to share your thoughts. Have a great weekend. Warm regards, Paul |
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Post by MartinT on Aug 16, 2019 16:43:45 GMT
Thanks for coming over and posting savvypaul , it is appreciated. I hope it won't be the last time? I can only support ChrisB and John 's comments regarding EOTW. Be that as it may, I do hope that you make a going concern of NVA and I suspect that HFS will start to reflect your views and ethos over time, as opposed to what went on before. We won't be unbanning anyone we have banned in the past, as they caused tremendous upset within our membership. However, other members of HFS remain welcome to join TAS and we will never censor mention of NVA products. Here's to peace, harmony, friendly co-existence and, most of all, the shared enjoyment of music. |
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Post by savvypaul on Aug 16, 2019 16:47:54 GMT
Thanks for your input Paul Like Chris, I do not want to inflame things I like many people thought it was going to be hidden to the public. It should be possible to just allow members to see it. This would go a long way to healing the past. I have a few thoughts 1 We have never banned NVA form being spoken about. 2 We have never been rude lied or trolled any of your forum members 3 Any member we banned We banned as we were pushed into When we set up the forum we allowed access to everyone 4 We always took a stance that we did not want to be part of any forum wars To be honest I am not sure we have allowed this thread to happen if we knew that EOTW was going to be visible. The members that we had to ban has made it quite clear that they do not want to post here. I personally have nothing against NVA or your Forum apart from EOTW I can understand you find yourself having to make hard decisions and really hope we can find a way to heal the past. Like the rest of the team, I have never wanted to be part in a forum war. Thanks, John, 1. Noted and appreciated 2. Thank you 3&4. Noted and understood. Thanks again. Have a great weekend. Warm regards, Paul |
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Post by savvypaul on Aug 16, 2019 16:52:46 GMT
Thanks for coming over and posting savvypaul , it is appreciated. I hope it won't be the last time? I can only support ChrisB and John 's comments regarding EOTW. Be that as it may, I do hope that you make a going concern of NVA and I suspect that HFS will start to reflect your views and ethos over time, as opposed to what went on before. We won't be unbanning anyone we have banned in the past, as they caused tremendous upset within our membership. However, other members of HFS remain welcome to join TAS and we will never censor mention of NVA products. Here's to peace, harmony, friendly co-existence and, most of all, the shared enjoyment of music. Thanks, Martin, You are right, it is early days. I don't underestimate the current depth of feeling. I don't seek to influence your own forum policies. They are entirely a matter for you and your team. I appreciate that you do not censor mention of NVA products. Peace, harmony, friendly co-existence and, most of all, the shared enjoyment of music? I can certainly live with that  Have a great weekend. All the best, Paul |
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Post by The Brookmeister on Aug 16, 2019 19:28:38 GMT
Frankly, I couldn't care less what they do with it as long as it never becomes public again. Agreed and I never did get why it existed in the first place. |
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Post by Pinch on Aug 16, 2019 22:58:33 GMT
The fact that there's never been a ban on mention of NVA gear here is very much to the forum's credit. I'm very keen on the gear, and though I still haven't gotten around to starting a system blog (one day...) I know I'll be free to discuss it openly and to sing its praises when I do. I've little interest in participating in any forum where this isn't the case. That said, I think it's unclear whether HFS, and EOTW in particular, have been more of an asset than a liability to the brand. I agree with Savvy that a new NVA user forum may well have been a more prudent decision from a business perspective. Speaking for myself, I've generally found the tone at HFS to be more than a little off-putting (though I did open an account there to offer some reflections on Richard's passing). But Savvy is very clearly sincere in his intention to take the forum in a new direction, and I wish him all the best |
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Post by stanleyb on Aug 16, 2019 23:05:33 GMT
I had no idea that Richard Dunn had passed away. I got on OK with him.
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Post by Slinger on Aug 16, 2019 23:50:04 GMT
I had no idea that Richard Dunn had passed away. I got on OK with him. He passed away back in May, Stan. |
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Post by stanleyb on Aug 16, 2019 23:56:54 GMT
I had no idea that Richard Dunn had passed away. I got on OK with him. He passed away back in May, Stan. I just scanned the internet for more info on that. I never knew he had THAT many enemies. He must have been doing something right then. |
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Post by The Brookmeister on Aug 19, 2019 19:46:58 GMT
He passed away back in May, Stan. I just scanned the internet for more info on that. I never knew he had THAT many enemies. He must have been doing something right then. RD had virtual enemies, the ones that exist in the cloud, you never actually meet them but they enjoy battling with each other via the keyboard. Sadly what was typed over the years is what made people hate him, sad part was when you met him in person he was a likeable character, we got on like a house on fire once we met up. Towards the latter part of his life he had made an effort to get out a bit more and did a couple of hifi shows. I am sure the many punters who went into his room changed their attitude towards him once they had met him. I am glad NVA will live on and when I finally meet my maker I hope to have a cup of tea and a chinwag with Richard in that great listening room in the sky. |
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