sully
Rank: Soloist
Posts: 29
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Post by sully on May 28, 2019 14:17:19 GMT
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Post by Slinger on May 28, 2019 15:18:23 GMT
Well, there's a solution none of us saw coming.  I'm not sure a £125.00 smart-phone will be comparable to the Chord (£399.00) or the iFi (£599.00) but it'll be interesting finding out, to say the least. Keep us informed. Re using a hub, I'd say it would be completely dependant on the type of DAC and the sort of hub, which is no answer at all. I'd suggest it would probably be best to use a powered hub, rather than a non-powered hub, and both might introduce jitter into the signal. It really is a "suck it and see" situation unless anyone here is actually running a USB DAC that way already. One last thing, your DAC, whatever you end up with, may not like a USB 3.0 hub; I'd stick with USB 2.0. |
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sully
Rank: Soloist
Posts: 29
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Post by sully on May 28, 2019 17:39:37 GMT
Well, there's a solution none of us saw coming. I'm not sure a £125.00 smart-phone will be comparable to the Chord (£399.00) or the iFi (£599.00) but it'll be interesting finding out, to say the least. Keep us informed.
I wasn't even looking for a solution - the volume control on my old Moto G broke and I need a cheap replacement phone. Because of this thread, I was thinking about the DAC and wondered whether any phones have onboard DACs (all this without any clear understanding of how any of this works) and yes, it is a thing! 3.5mm jacks on phones are becoming less common now and I wanted to be able to hook up to the new little SMSL amp. At that price I just had to get one.
But - I ordered from AliExpress!!! I've never had anything bigger than cables or chargers from them before. Wish me luck!
Regarding the PC > DAC > SMSL amp > subwoofer setup, I still need to understand a bit more .
I'm not sure if the 3.5 jack output on my Lenovo 50/70 has optical functionality - I've seen a few posts suggesting a red light when an optical jackis inserted, but as I have no opticl cables/devices.....
Who'd a thunk that USB 3.0 might not be compatible with DACs ? Cheers.
Will it work with my dodgy (think rusty, old) USB ports?
Will I notice any difference? As far as I can see I'm getting the optimal Windows 24bit 192000Hz "studio quality" sound through the headphones jack. I still don't quite understand what a DAC does... (Swims and quacks?  ). |
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Post by John on May 28, 2019 17:43:42 GMT
Ali Express usually deliver expensive items tracked
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Post by MartinT on May 28, 2019 18:21:59 GMT
Most phones have a 3.5mm jack so most phones have a DAC. Whether it's any good is another matter...
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sully
Rank: Soloist
Posts: 29
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Post by sully on May 28, 2019 18:37:46 GMT
Most phones have a 3.5mm jack so most phones have a DAC. Whether it's any good is another matter... ...and now I understand DAC 
So the ones and the zeroes are exactly the same up to that point?
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Post by MartinT on May 28, 2019 19:19:07 GMT
Yes, the data stream is the same, it's how it's processed and converted in the DAC that makes the difference.
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sully
Rank: Soloist
Posts: 29
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Post by sully on May 28, 2019 21:37:16 GMT
Hey Sully - plug this into USB and to 3.5mm, from Amazon, keep it simple and low cost. Search "dragonfly black audioquest" I'm only finding RED and it's 199€ - this is not low cost in my book , but I'm starting to get an idea of what I want/need .
edit. ok, I see that red is just a colour option, not a product line/model  re-edit: - they are different
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Post by Slinger on May 28, 2019 21:57:16 GMT
Hey Sully - plug this into USB and to 3.5mm, from Amazon, keep it simple and low cost. Search "dragonfly black audioquest" I'm only finding RED and it's 199€ - this is not low cost in my book , but I'm starting to get an idea of what I want/need .
edit. ok, I see that red is just a colour option, not a product line/model The Red and the Black are different products. The more expensive Red has a more advanced DAC and headphone amp for starters, plus a “ bit-perfect digital volume control contained on the DAC chip itself” that’s apparently a big improvement on the analogue volume control in the Black. It's also got a higher voltage output (2.1v compared to the Black’s 1.2v) which makes it more suitable for driving demanding headphones, too. They're both 24-bit/96kHz DACs though. UK eBay prices for a used Dragonfly Black are around fifty or sixty quid. |
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sully
Rank: Soloist
Posts: 29
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Post by sully on May 28, 2019 22:29:05 GMT
I'm only finding RED and it's 199€ - this is not low cost in my book , but I'm starting to get an idea of what I want/need .
edit. ok, I see that red is just a colour option, not a product line/model The Red and the Black are different products. The more expensive Red has a more advanced DAC and headphone amp for starters, plus a “ bit-perfect digital volume control contained on the DAC chip itself” that’s apparently a big improvement on the analogue volume control in the Black. It's also got a higher voltage output (2.1v compared to the Black’s 1.2v) which makes it more suitable for driving demanding headphones, too. They're both 24-bit/96kHz DACs though. UK eBay prices for a used Dragonfly Black are around fifty or sixty quid. I really appreciate the advice - I now know that DACs range from a tenner to several thousand quid. Like Homer Simpson, I tend to choose the second or third cheapest wine on the list, but price seems to be no guarantee in this caper, and it's all so subjective.... I need "can't go wrong with this one" type recommendations. I'm beginning to see the attraction of the Dragonfly. Ah, and are all these dongles exclusively USB or is there an option from the PC's mini-jack? Thanks and g'night. |
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Post by MartinT on May 29, 2019 4:55:40 GMT
It's a reasonable guide but a little out of date. The Beresford Caiman has been superceded by the Beresford SEG, a very good DAC that probably goes up two divisions in stock form. There are lots of missing DACs, too. |
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Post by John on May 29, 2019 6:51:28 GMT
As you say a lot of DACs to choose from
The dragonfly red would be a good option so would be the Caiman Seg
To be honest I think you probably be happy with either I have no regrets with the Seg, although mine is heavily modified
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Post by dubulup on May 29, 2019 7:47:35 GMT
Dragonfly Black would match the rest of your system and is simple to integrate. It's a slippery slope...but I would get the USB extension hub like you suggested, however I'd plug everything else into it and try to find the least busy local USB hub on your computer for the Dragonfly; sometimes there are two different hubs to the mother board with a couple ports each.
Spending $200 on a DAC might not benefit with the remaining gear in your system. If your legs can squat 1000kg but your shoulders can't hold the bar...who cares.
Just my thinking.
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Post by John on May 29, 2019 8:08:40 GMT
I think this is a fair point
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Post by Slinger on May 29, 2019 13:11:00 GMT
The advantage of running a DAC from a hub (so I've read) is that you avoid all of the "nasty" stuff (jitter, noise, etc.) that could affect the DAC courtesy of being hooked up directly to the computer's motherboard. I can't swear to the truth of that, but I have read it more than once and thought it was worth a mention.
Your ideal solution, with your current setup, is an SMSL Q5 Pro, they've gone up in price, but they still appear on eBay, used. It's an amp, with a built-in DAC, and as well as the normal speaker terminals there's an output for a subwoofer. Several of us here have them, myself included, and they are brilliant value. It's a shame you've already got the SMSL 36A.
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Post by MikeMusic on May 29, 2019 13:14:44 GMT
The Q5 is ridiculous VFM
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Post by ChrisB on May 29, 2019 16:22:54 GMT
I think an old Beresford 7520 would fit the bill very nicely in terms of performance and price.
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sully
Rank: Soloist
Posts: 29
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Post by sully on May 29, 2019 21:06:38 GMT
Right, so I can see how peeps get to invest a lot of time and money in audio. DACs really should be tested before purchase (it seems to me) but there's very little in the way of physical choice available to me here. All I could find today was a Creative gaming sound card and a "Hama USB Sound Card 7.1 Surround" @ 14€.I took the Hama, natch. Out of the box and straight into a USB port on the hub - it worked, it was.... louder ..... but compressed, strident. Not better than the max quality output from windows through the 3.5mm output. I forget the numbers but it was "DVD quality"
So, it came with a CD installation disk.  After my big spring clean last week, I had to recover and hook up an external cd-player to install the driver, equalizer, 7.1 options. The software is from cmedia and I can't believe we're still doing the installation wizard thing. Clunky, limited interface with an equalizer I've seen before somewhere (Creative Labs speakers maybe?). But the sound is rich and warm now, set to "rock"  . I believe I'm listening at 24bit, 192,000 Hz. I've been listening to this for the last hour or so, and very mellow it is too:
What happens next?
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Post by MartinT on May 29, 2019 22:08:04 GMT
...you listen to more music?
Seriously, if you like the sound then enjoy it some more.
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Post by Slinger on May 29, 2019 22:38:50 GMT
If you go to the Hama website you can download the latest drivers.They're under the "Downloads" below the image(s) of your dongle. uk.hama.com/051620/hama-71-surround-usb-sound-card#downloadsI'm assuming that that's the one you bought? And like Martin said, if you're enjoying the sound then the only thing to do next is to keep on enjoying the sound. |
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I'm not sure a £125.00 smart-phone will be comparable to the Chord (£399.00) or the iFi (£599.00) but it'll be interesting finding out, to say the least. Keep us informed.
).
re-edit: - they are different
After my big spring clean last week, I had to recover and hook up an external cd-player to install the driver, equalizer, 7.1 options. The software is from cmedia and I can't believe we're still doing the installation wizard thing. Clunky, limited interface with an equalizer I've seen before somewhere (Creative Labs speakers maybe?). But the sound is rich and warm now, set to "rock" 
. I believe I'm listening at 24bit, 192,000 Hz. I've been listening to this for the last hour or so, and very mellow it is too: