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Post by jandl100 on Feb 14, 2019 10:11:13 GMT
Care to elucidate Martin? Hard to put it into words as it's a mind-visual thing. Essentially, when we normally ground something, we talk about sinking noise and interference to ground. We don't talk about a return path, just that Mother Earth is a big, stable sink for noise and takes in far more than it gives back. Now think of a grounding box as a micro-Earth, made from materials designed to enhance, in a compact form, its ability to sink noise and crap. This is nothing to do with hum, it's the noise that exists in the ground plane of electronics. Connecting the ground plane of, say, your preamp to the box helps to sink away that noise on account of it being a very low impedance ground (I think that's why the grounding cables have such an effect on performance). We all know that interference isn't always heard as noise, it quite often manifests as intermodulation: one frequency modulating another. Take that noise away and distortion reduces. This is what I hear when I connect my grounding boxes to the system. Lowered noise floor, enhanced clarity and deep, deep soundstage. Doh!  That's almost plausible. OK - I've ordered a SGS Signature box. Can't wait to give it a go!  |
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Post by John on Feb 14, 2019 10:13:55 GMT
I really liked what it did in Martins system
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Post by MartinT on Feb 14, 2019 10:21:15 GMT
Good move, Jerry. I think you may be surprised.
Tips: try it on your preamp first, or otherwise your source. Try an input ground and, after a few days, compare with an output ground.
Connect it and leave it. The effect takes a few hours to a few days to fully emerge. You simply can't chop and change as it has a definite settling period.
Put the box on decent footers - I know you have a few different ones. Both of mine are on BR Pads.
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Post by jandl100 on Feb 14, 2019 10:25:52 GMT
Thanks, Martin - I've asked for an RCA terminated cable connection, I was planning on hooking it up to the pre-amp.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 10:26:50 GMT
Jerry, am I right in thinking you got an output buffer created by the Arkless electronics guy? If yes, how did you get on with that?
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Post by AlanS on Feb 14, 2019 10:44:30 GMT
I was advised very strongly by a trader to purchase an above standard USB cable to open my hearing experience. That trader no longer trades on forums.
So I purchased WyreWorld (Yellow) and Supra in 1m and 2m lengths. I struggled to hear any difference. The trader had neglected to ask what DAC I was using. So I ended up learning about galvanic isolation. The DAC I had was designed to be galvanically isolated. Unfortunately Mr Trader argued with me. I no longer trust anyone who tells me what I need. Insistence can lead to what some perceive as rudeness
I encountered significant enthusiasm for Tellurium Q Black speaker cable. A wave of excitement passed through a forum. So being an open minded and curious person I splashed my cash. They certainly sounded different to the VDH 2.5mm I was using. Not a pleasant difference. I was advised to let them burn in. After 2 months I was glad to sell them to someone who was happy with them. They suggested the idea that thin cables strangle the sound to give loads of higher frequencies and reduced bass.
Another open minded exercise involved a mans cable which was making peoples lives so much richer. I recall receiving it and removing it from the packaging.
I placed the cable in front of me and said to it 'I have been told you will make a difference. Show me' inserted the cable into my amp.
With highly curious mind I powered up. Nothing. It looked impressive though.
I read your experiences with interest
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Post by jandl100 on Feb 14, 2019 11:07:25 GMT
Jerry, am I right in thinking you got an output buffer created by the Arkless electronics guy? If yes, how did you get on with that? Yes, that is correct. It works well placed after passive preamps, adding heft and scale to the dynamic presentation. I used it with a Schiit Saga and the cheap Chinese RVC passive that has been praised here and on AOS. It's not effective with the active preamps I have tried. |
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Post by jandl100 on Feb 14, 2019 11:15:55 GMT
... I placed the cable in front of me and said to it 'I have been told you will make a difference. Show me' ...  Still you did hear a difference with the Tellurium Black speaker cables. I agree with your general observation, I didn't like what they did to the sound, either. Personally, I remain a mains cable enthusiast, although I have found that the best (to my ear) costs just a few tens of £ rather than those that advance into 3 £figures. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 11:22:25 GMT
Interestingly last week I visited a new customer, who had not one but SIX grounding device boxes, including a dedicated earth (mains not ground box)you have never seen so many grounding leads in your life  The gent had not one but TWO boxes on each mono-block, tied together with another lead The upshot was by actually removing five of these boxes and consolidated the rest on the main GB it sounded much more open and articulate plus improved depth of stage. One of the biggest improvements was to remove the two leads that were connected to the dac and pre casework (this box connected straight back to the mains wall socket.) This is a tale of caution do not get complacent, his investment in this treatment was not insubstantial, always double check your results and go back a week or so later and do it again. |
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Post by jandl100 on Feb 14, 2019 11:52:30 GMT
... This is a tale of caution do not get complacent, his investment in this treatment was not insubstantial, always double check your results and go back a week or so later and do it again. Yup. I was happy with the valve upgrade for my Herron pre. But a few weeks later I was thinking 'hmm, maybe the pre isn't as good as I thought', and I put it up for sale. Luckily, the enthused comments about it on the fs thread made me stop and think. I went back to the original and quite humble valves and the excellent sound was restored in its former glory. It is an easy trap to fall into. |
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Barry
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Post by Barry on Feb 14, 2019 18:58:25 GMT
Can't say I agree with your thinking Martin.
There is no a priori reason why the Earth should absorb high frequency noise. The noise manifests itself as a current, and as such needs a circuit; a return path. The grounding boxes do not provide this.
If the noise is due to electromagnetic radiation, then there are materials that can absorb it, but they are not broadband and need to be impedance matched. I cannot see how the metal plates buried in the granular material contained within the box constitute efficient atennae.
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Post by MartinT on Feb 14, 2019 21:40:53 GMT
The noise manifests itself as a current, and as such needs a circuit; a return path. Well, it's just MY thought experiment! When you ground an old fashioned crystal radio, you need that ground for good reception. However, there is no return circuit as such. |
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Post by AlanS on Feb 15, 2019 9:37:48 GMT
... I placed the cable in front of me and said to it 'I have been told you will make a difference. Show me' ... Still you did hear a difference with the Tellurium Black speaker cables. I agree with your general observation, I didn't like what they did to the sound, either. Personally, I remain a mains cable enthusiast, although I have found that the best (to my ear) costs just a few tens of £ rather than those that advance into 3 £figures. Mindful of those who say ah but I purchased another mains cable from a different source. Again zero difference. I came to the conclusion I have the most amazing mains supply and freedom from damaging other mains users such as, industry, heavy power draws. Those who do hear a benefit live in a very different environment. Be grateful for good fortune. I have a Tacima block for all the chargers to run from. That throttled the sustem when used to feed it. I did find a Cardas cable much more agreeable than the Sennheiser HD800 cable. |
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Barry
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Post by Barry on Feb 15, 2019 21:06:03 GMT
The noise manifests itself as a current, and as such needs a circuit; a return path. Well, it's just MY thought experiment! When you ground an old fashioned crystal radio, you need that ground for good reception. However, there is no return circuit as such. That is because the electromagnetic wave that is the radio broadcast intecepts the receiver's antenna (usually a long piece of wire arranged like a washing line running down the garden), and the earth (ground). A voltage is set up between these two conductors and a current flows through the tuned circuit and the diode (the crystal). The diode removes one half of the alternating signal so the mean voltage is non-zero, and the signal is de-modulated by the mechanical inertia of the headphones. The remarkable thing is that all of the power required to activate the headphones comes from the power in the electromagnetic wave and nowhere else. |
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Post by MartinT on Feb 15, 2019 23:06:18 GMT
Yep, I remember making a crystal radio and listening in fascination at this wave-powered device.
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Post by AlanS on Feb 16, 2019 9:16:55 GMT
I recall reading one enthusiast raving about using Acrylic sheet under his turntable. Obtained 2 * 15mm clear cut to size. It may have made a tiny difference but nothing to grab your attention. Sheet is still in place but I gave up using my TT, even new discs made unmusical noises.
A parabolic stylus yielded increased grove imperfections as much as music.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 16, 2023 17:29:29 GMT
It's fun going back over this old thread.
I was wrong about DAC to power amp, eliminating the preamp ultimately took me in the right direction.
I was right about spikes and grounding boxes, though.
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Post by brettj on Dec 16, 2023 21:01:35 GMT
This thread had bypassed me.
Agree with the 'being won over' by the additions that at one level of thinking (i.e. ASR level) should not make a difference.
Black Ravioli Pads and Big Pads, Stack Audio Auva isolators, Akiko Audio products, fuses, grounding boxes, network switches.
Even 'cleaning up' the power to my system components, and linear power supplies at some level are surprising in the effect.
The frequent thought of "How in the hell does this work?"
The biggest head shaker for me are the Schumann Resonators I have.
Bought more expensive ones from Jericojason on eBay.
I'm not sure I could hear a difference with and without them.
Maybe it was the case of I wanted to believe?
With my system evolution, I need to sit down and revisit testing them.
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Post by MikeMusic on Dec 16, 2023 21:18:31 GMT
Tried some cheap Schumann resonators
Don't think they work
Tried a Kemp and I'm pretty sure it does improve the sound
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Post by MartinT on Dec 16, 2023 21:50:33 GMT
Schumann resonator didn't work for me, many mains treatments and isolators did work.
Mad Scientist was a mixed bag, but their USB Ultra cable and graphene are epic.
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That's almost plausible.
