Post by pinkie on Sept 1, 2014 10:12:43 GMT
No DQ
It was a concert I attended - but like I said - lyrics are the same there, Seconds Out and Foxtrot so utterly irrelevant really.
The divorce started with an ex-parte non-molestation and ouster order issued by a solicitor found by the bankrupt, cocaine dealing, prostitute running, non-owner but beneficial shadow controller of a business providing DSS tenants for private landlords in South-East London, that she subsequently married. Like I said - I really only wanted the legal team to arrange taxation and collection of the costs award I won in defending it, but the system kicks in. The ex-parte appearance was served on me by bailiffs.
Your compassion is heart-warming, Your arrogance indicative of your profession. Your ignorance and political dogma typical of the avatar you use elsewhere (which is frankly preferable to the chocolate covered child)
So - to clarify, you wouldnt save in an ISA as it depletes the exchequer? Bollocks!
Even if you are too coy to give names, perhaps you could confirm the legal structure of the organisation through which you ply your trade? And the reasons for it?
As for the French tax system - you are as dangerously ignorant on this subject as you are when puffing to defend mains devices which fail to work in the manner alleged by chums of yours. The French system is crippling and self destructive because it is an aggressive regressive system which penalises the poor.
There is a "bouclier fiscal" in France, which allows you to opt out of standard taxation (and the social security charges which are like taxation - imposed on all income, rather than the "national insurance" charges, charged only on wealth generation - employment or self-employment). So if you are very rich in France, you work out 50% of your gross income, and your tax is capped at that, and you can claim a refund of any taxation paid in excess of that level through the "normal" rules.
But if you are Molly Maid setting up a cleaning business and can earn £10,000 gross, you as Molly Maid pay 50% NI on that so are left with £5000. Actually, less than that, since, regardless of whether you have any business premesis, or make 1p you have to pay a business rates charge - probably about £350 in this case. So you are left with £4650. This is within the up to £5000 band for tax, so there is no further tax to pay, but there is the ""taxation like" national insurance at 9% (roughly - French tax is hideously complicated and local - but in broad "normal" terms) so now you have only £4231 left.
What happens? If you are bright, switched on, or well advised, you don't start Molly Maid, you claim social security income support instead. If you are naieve or English, you run up debts 5 years down the line when the authorities catch up with you and file for bankrupcy. (Read any number of ex-pat forums)
The tax is regressive - it taxes those on very low incomes as hard as those on very high incomes. In fact harder - since there is a cap which reduces social security charges to almost nothing on income in excess of £45000. The poor pay a very high percentage of their total income, and an even higher percentage of their "essential income". This is the problem with taxes like VAT - indirect taxes. They are optional for the rich - compulsory for the poor. OK - food and energy may be subject to low rates, but VAT will represent a high percentage of a low earners income. It can represent a tiny percentage of a high earners income, since they can choose NOT to spend, and instead save or invest, or spend overseas where no VAT is collected
In the UK, as a self-employed person with an income of £40,000 I pay £NIL on the first £7956 of profits (Assuming I earn more than £5885 I have to pay a flat rate £143pa class 2 NI). On profits in excess of £7956 I pay 9% NI up to £41865pa. OK - lets set my taxable income at £45000. I pay £143 plus (41865-7956)*9% plus (45000-41865)*2% = £3115 in National insurance. None of that is allowed as a deduction from tax. I pay NIL tax on the first £10,000, and 20% on the next £31865, and 40% on the remainder, so the tax bill is £7627. My total tax and NI is £10742 - about 24% of my gross income. If I earn another £5000 the NI is 2% the tax is 40% and my marginal rate for the combined taxes is 42%
If I earn £45000 I keep £34258. If I earn £50,000 I keep £37158. Electing to carry on my business in this country I have contributed to the British Exchequer
In France its more complicated, and has regional and new business startup incentives, but taking a broad crude approach
£45,000 suffers 4 national insurances , the largest of which is a pension contribution, which varies with the trade or profession earning the funds, but lets say its about 45%. So my charges are £20250 - already double the UK charge, and my net income is £24750. If your wife is about to lose her teachers salary, taxed under UK rules, that missing £10,000 punches a big hole in the domestic budget. But we're not finished yet. The good news - that social security charge IS deductible from income for tax and "tax like" NI purposes, so my net taxable income is now only £24750.
There is no flat rate personal allowance like the UK, but there is a general allowance of 10%. So if I earn £100,000 I get personal allowances of £10,000. If I earn £10,000 I get personal allowances of £1000. Tell me about how fair that is DQ
SO 90% of £24750 is £22275 and 9% of that is subject to "tax like" NI = £2005. That amount is NOT deductible. The tax then gets a bit complicated, since my income is added to my wifes, and the bands are doubled. ie, as a single person, the first £5000 is not taxed. As a couple that band doubles to £10000 - regardless of the fact maybe only one person earns the income. This is advantageous to us, but too complicated for this exercise, so lets deal with me as a single man. £5000 at NIL. The next £5000 is at 5.5% £275. The balance is in the next band at 14% (the bands are in euros not £, and I have used approximate current exchange rates) £1718.
So in France I pay tax of £1993 and "tax like" NI of £2005, and NI of £20250 - an eye watering total of £24248 on £45000 (and I forgot the business rates) an effective rate on all earnings of 54% compared with total charges of £10742 or 24% in the UK. Note - this tax hits low incomes first, and mitigates as incomes rise (the capping of the NI charge, more than compensating the increasing tax bands, especially since the tax bands double where I have a wife on a low income)
Utterly insane. The French economy may not be brought to its knees by TB-a choosing to remain UK resident for 5 more years, but Ford locating new investment in Spain and Belgium and the "brain drain" of young French executives relocating to Brussels or the USA is long term bleeding the country white. As I noted, the tax is so crippling for marginal small businesses that they don't start up - and people either claim benefit or are employed in low paid state employment - where the employer - the state - pays the bloody silly charges, adding to its own need for high taxation
If it was Soviet Russia, and could prevent the free movement of citizens, and impose tarrif barriers on imports, it could survive in the sluggish backward manner the Soviet economy did during the 20th century. But as a member of the EU, effectively with no tarrif barriers, trade operates in a low tax regime and sells into France.
THe country is a paradise to retire to - but a complete non-starter to work in. As noted, with the help of a good French accountant, and the fact that my business is genuinely English, I can mitigate that situation, pretty much back to UK rates since we will be a couple - and anyway TB-a won't bring the French economy to its knees. But the big picture is ghastly - and the French I spoke to are only too aware of it. The real problem is the self-perpetuating nature of the problem. France is, as described, a country hostile to entrepreneurs, and generous in its support for the low paid. Who vote to perpetuate the self-destructive system.
A case of caution being required before plunging in and living there I feel. Assuming the Russians under Adolf Putin don't annexe the Languedoc as sudeten-russian before I get there.
It was a concert I attended - but like I said - lyrics are the same there, Seconds Out and Foxtrot so utterly irrelevant really.
The divorce started with an ex-parte non-molestation and ouster order issued by a solicitor found by the bankrupt, cocaine dealing, prostitute running, non-owner but beneficial shadow controller of a business providing DSS tenants for private landlords in South-East London, that she subsequently married. Like I said - I really only wanted the legal team to arrange taxation and collection of the costs award I won in defending it, but the system kicks in. The ex-parte appearance was served on me by bailiffs.
Your compassion is heart-warming, Your arrogance indicative of your profession. Your ignorance and political dogma typical of the avatar you use elsewhere (which is frankly preferable to the chocolate covered child)
So - to clarify, you wouldnt save in an ISA as it depletes the exchequer? Bollocks!
Even if you are too coy to give names, perhaps you could confirm the legal structure of the organisation through which you ply your trade? And the reasons for it?
As for the French tax system - you are as dangerously ignorant on this subject as you are when puffing to defend mains devices which fail to work in the manner alleged by chums of yours. The French system is crippling and self destructive because it is an aggressive regressive system which penalises the poor.
There is a "bouclier fiscal" in France, which allows you to opt out of standard taxation (and the social security charges which are like taxation - imposed on all income, rather than the "national insurance" charges, charged only on wealth generation - employment or self-employment). So if you are very rich in France, you work out 50% of your gross income, and your tax is capped at that, and you can claim a refund of any taxation paid in excess of that level through the "normal" rules.
But if you are Molly Maid setting up a cleaning business and can earn £10,000 gross, you as Molly Maid pay 50% NI on that so are left with £5000. Actually, less than that, since, regardless of whether you have any business premesis, or make 1p you have to pay a business rates charge - probably about £350 in this case. So you are left with £4650. This is within the up to £5000 band for tax, so there is no further tax to pay, but there is the ""taxation like" national insurance at 9% (roughly - French tax is hideously complicated and local - but in broad "normal" terms) so now you have only £4231 left.
What happens? If you are bright, switched on, or well advised, you don't start Molly Maid, you claim social security income support instead. If you are naieve or English, you run up debts 5 years down the line when the authorities catch up with you and file for bankrupcy. (Read any number of ex-pat forums)
The tax is regressive - it taxes those on very low incomes as hard as those on very high incomes. In fact harder - since there is a cap which reduces social security charges to almost nothing on income in excess of £45000. The poor pay a very high percentage of their total income, and an even higher percentage of their "essential income". This is the problem with taxes like VAT - indirect taxes. They are optional for the rich - compulsory for the poor. OK - food and energy may be subject to low rates, but VAT will represent a high percentage of a low earners income. It can represent a tiny percentage of a high earners income, since they can choose NOT to spend, and instead save or invest, or spend overseas where no VAT is collected
In the UK, as a self-employed person with an income of £40,000 I pay £NIL on the first £7956 of profits (Assuming I earn more than £5885 I have to pay a flat rate £143pa class 2 NI). On profits in excess of £7956 I pay 9% NI up to £41865pa. OK - lets set my taxable income at £45000. I pay £143 plus (41865-7956)*9% plus (45000-41865)*2% = £3115 in National insurance. None of that is allowed as a deduction from tax. I pay NIL tax on the first £10,000, and 20% on the next £31865, and 40% on the remainder, so the tax bill is £7627. My total tax and NI is £10742 - about 24% of my gross income. If I earn another £5000 the NI is 2% the tax is 40% and my marginal rate for the combined taxes is 42%
If I earn £45000 I keep £34258. If I earn £50,000 I keep £37158. Electing to carry on my business in this country I have contributed to the British Exchequer
In France its more complicated, and has regional and new business startup incentives, but taking a broad crude approach
£45,000 suffers 4 national insurances , the largest of which is a pension contribution, which varies with the trade or profession earning the funds, but lets say its about 45%. So my charges are £20250 - already double the UK charge, and my net income is £24750. If your wife is about to lose her teachers salary, taxed under UK rules, that missing £10,000 punches a big hole in the domestic budget. But we're not finished yet. The good news - that social security charge IS deductible from income for tax and "tax like" NI purposes, so my net taxable income is now only £24750.
There is no flat rate personal allowance like the UK, but there is a general allowance of 10%. So if I earn £100,000 I get personal allowances of £10,000. If I earn £10,000 I get personal allowances of £1000. Tell me about how fair that is DQ
SO 90% of £24750 is £22275 and 9% of that is subject to "tax like" NI = £2005. That amount is NOT deductible. The tax then gets a bit complicated, since my income is added to my wifes, and the bands are doubled. ie, as a single person, the first £5000 is not taxed. As a couple that band doubles to £10000 - regardless of the fact maybe only one person earns the income. This is advantageous to us, but too complicated for this exercise, so lets deal with me as a single man. £5000 at NIL. The next £5000 is at 5.5% £275. The balance is in the next band at 14% (the bands are in euros not £, and I have used approximate current exchange rates) £1718.
So in France I pay tax of £1993 and "tax like" NI of £2005, and NI of £20250 - an eye watering total of £24248 on £45000 (and I forgot the business rates) an effective rate on all earnings of 54% compared with total charges of £10742 or 24% in the UK. Note - this tax hits low incomes first, and mitigates as incomes rise (the capping of the NI charge, more than compensating the increasing tax bands, especially since the tax bands double where I have a wife on a low income)
Utterly insane. The French economy may not be brought to its knees by TB-a choosing to remain UK resident for 5 more years, but Ford locating new investment in Spain and Belgium and the "brain drain" of young French executives relocating to Brussels or the USA is long term bleeding the country white. As I noted, the tax is so crippling for marginal small businesses that they don't start up - and people either claim benefit or are employed in low paid state employment - where the employer - the state - pays the bloody silly charges, adding to its own need for high taxation
If it was Soviet Russia, and could prevent the free movement of citizens, and impose tarrif barriers on imports, it could survive in the sluggish backward manner the Soviet economy did during the 20th century. But as a member of the EU, effectively with no tarrif barriers, trade operates in a low tax regime and sells into France.
THe country is a paradise to retire to - but a complete non-starter to work in. As noted, with the help of a good French accountant, and the fact that my business is genuinely English, I can mitigate that situation, pretty much back to UK rates since we will be a couple - and anyway TB-a won't bring the French economy to its knees. But the big picture is ghastly - and the French I spoke to are only too aware of it. The real problem is the self-perpetuating nature of the problem. France is, as described, a country hostile to entrepreneurs, and generous in its support for the low paid. Who vote to perpetuate the self-destructive system.
A case of caution being required before plunging in and living there I feel. Assuming the Russians under Adolf Putin don't annexe the Languedoc as sudeten-russian before I get there.
