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Post by Tim on Jul 25, 2014 11:03:21 GMT
Its not so much that the look is more important than the sound John, its just weighing the options and the fact I will have to live with something that visually I don't actually like. Couple that with the cost factor and also that playing records for me will be more of a novelty than necessity, then its not such an easy choice to make. John (Welder), that's one of the most balanced and honest assessments of an LP12 I have read for awhile and I thank you for taking the time to share it. I have heard LP12s which have to my ears sounded great, so both sonically and visually they please me a great deal. Mind you I like to predominately listen to music from 'computers' so I'm clearly a little daft anyway
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 11:15:04 GMT
Probably unprintable here.
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Post by John on Jul 25, 2014 11:31:27 GMT
Okay Tim If you PC set up is as good as I imagine it to be you really only have one choice as far as sound goes and it does not begin with L
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Post by gazjam on Jul 25, 2014 12:30:00 GMT
401 looks awesome in a slate plinth imo.
I'm one of those guys that looks come into it too. I think there's a pride of ownership with certain kit and nowadays a turntable ticks all those boxes. If something irked me about it I'd need to change it.
In fact, made some serious mods to my own deck recently, my silver Gyro is now black - and much better for it. Couldn't relax with all that bling flying around!
Tim, Don't discount vinyl, even if your digital setup is very good. I'm loving mine, its different in a way I can enjoy.
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Post by Stratmangler on Jul 25, 2014 13:10:19 GMT
I think the LP12 looks like it sounds like a nice deck! Cosmetically it's spot on, and it matches Ikea furniture really well.
There are much better sounding decks out there, and their makers don't charge Linn p*ss take prices.
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Post by ChrisB on Jul 25, 2014 13:14:42 GMT
I agree about the look of the 401 Tim. I think it's awful! The 301, though is a lovely thing.
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Post by Tim on Jul 25, 2014 14:28:23 GMT
I agree about the look of the 401 Tim. I think it's awful! The 301, though is a lovely thing. Now that I agree with totally, I love the look of the 301, especially the earlier hammertone ones without the strobe marked platter, classic and timeless beauty as well as superb performance. I have toyed seriously with the idea of the CTC ones, but cannot justify the price. Not really a 301 either, but I'm not precious about that
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Post by pre65 on Jul 25, 2014 14:31:09 GMT
I much prefer the look of my Garrard 401 to the Linn.
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Post by gazjam on Jul 25, 2014 16:57:06 GMT
That the clear perspex one Phil? Oh yes...
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Post by ChrisB on Jul 25, 2014 17:36:25 GMT
Well now, if we're talking about Hammerite-chic, then I'll take a Russco, thanks!
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Barry
Rank: Trio
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Post by Barry on Jul 26, 2014 11:16:01 GMT
I once had an extended loan of a friend's LP12; fitted with Grace 707 arm and AKG cartridge. To my ears there was nothing about the performance of the Linn that would cause me to replace my Thorens TD124/II turntable.
As others have said, Linn's martketing hype and their almost diabolic highjacking of the British audio press (and of the reviewers)allowed the LP12 to achieve disproportionate influence at the time. Un-deserved, because the Linn was a modified Ariston, which in turn was based on the original belt drive design - the Acoustic Research turntable, designed by the late, great Edgar Villchur.
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Marco
Rank: Trio
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Post by Marco on Jul 26, 2014 11:19:57 GMT
Linn Sondek LP12I get the impression they are not liked by the AoS 'Techy' crowd . . . so what do folks here feel? Hi Tim, The last one is a lovely looking example of an LP12! Late Ittoks are also one of my favourite tonearms... However, in terms of the "AoS Techy crowd", I think you've received a similar answer here to your query, to what you'd have got over there!! Bear in mind too, that as much as we love the Techy on AoS, we also are BIG into vintage idler-drive T/Ts. In fact, in reality, outwith of The Techiepedia, I'd say that there's just as much passion amongst members on AoS for the latter, as there is for the former... What we're not into too much is modern belt-drive T/Ts, and given that the LP12 was first introduced in 1972, I think it deserves to be called a classic! Do I like them? Yes; certain ones in certain systems, as they vary so much in terms of how one has 'pimped' them, with either Linn parts or those from a multitude of other companies. In that respect, I always enjoy listening to good ones. With the right music, they can 'boogie like a b*stard', and have a lovely (if ultimately coloured) 'elastic sounding', rhythmic bass. PRAT is also in the first rank, although a good modified Techy can easily 'out-PRAT' an LP12, due to the former's rock-soild speed stability. Do I think that an LP12 (no matter how judiciously 'pimped') represents the pinnacle of what is achievable from vinyl reply? No, quite simply because I believe that the 'low to medium-mass' belt-drive T/T route is fundamentally flawed, as indeed did Ivor T, all those years ago, where if circumstances had been different, the LP12 would've been a direct-drive design. That rather brutal fact is often deliberately overlooked by the Linn fanboys!! Do I think that you'd like an LP12 in your system? Yes, no question, as the 'feel good factor' (due to the fact that you LOVE its looks, and how it would function in your room as an attractive ornament) would easily override its sonic limitations, every time you cued up a record in your Superman pyjamas.... Marco.
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Barry
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Post by Barry on Jul 26, 2014 11:31:41 GMT
I agree about the look of the 401 Tim. I think it's awful! The 301, though is a lovely thing. I think you have a 'thing' about black and silver livery Chris. You expressed the same sentiments over the black and silver livery of the Leak electronics c.f. their earlier brown and cream livery. Apropos decks using "hammer finish" paintwork, well I do like the look of the Garrard 301 decks (especially those modified for use by the BBC, with the neat 'wrist rest' for easy arm cuing), but give the choice I would still go for the EMT930. Sadly, I think that Russco, and its variants looks awful! But then beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Here is a pic of the hammer finish EMT 930:
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Post by ChrisB on Jul 26, 2014 11:36:11 GMT
I think it's more that I have a thing about that type of 60's design Barry. The Leaks and Garrards with a 50's feel to them appeal far more to my eye.
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Marco
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Post by Marco on Jul 26, 2014 11:43:30 GMT
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Post by ChrisB on Jul 26, 2014 11:49:48 GMT
Yes, I'm afraid there is a place in my world for a little light Brutalism!
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Post by Tim on Jul 26, 2014 12:12:52 GMT
However, in terms of the "AoS Techy crowd", I think you've received a similar answer here to your query, to what you'd have got over there!! Bear in mind too, that as much as we love the Techy on AoS, we also are BIG into vintage idler-drive T/Ts. In fact, in reality, outwith of The Techiepedia, I'd say that there's just as much passion amongst members on AoS for the latter, as there is for the former... What we're not into too much is modern belt-drive T/Ts, and given that the LP12 was first introduced in 1972, I think it deserves to be called a classic! Do I like them? Yes; certain ones in certain systems, as they vary so much in terms of how one has 'pimped' them, with either Linn parts or those from a multitude of other companies. In that respect, I always enjoy listening to good ones. With the right music, they can 'boogie like a b*stard', and have a lovely (if ultimately coloured) 'elastic sounding', rhythmic bass. PRAT is also in the first rank, although a good modified Techy can easily 'out-PRAT' an LP12, due to the former's rock-soild speed stability. Do I think that an LP12 (no matter how judiciously 'pimped') represents the pinnacle of what is achievable from vinyl reply? No, quite simply because I believe that the 'low to medium-mass' belt-drive T/T route is fundamentally flawed, as indeed did Ivor T, all those years ago, where if circumstances had been different, the LP12 would've been a direct-drive design. That rather brutal fact is often deliberately overlooked by the Linn fanboys!! Do I think that you'd like an LP12 in your system? Yes, no question, as the 'feel good factor' (due to the fact that you LOVE its looks, and how it would function in your room as an attractive ornament) would easily override its sonic limitations, every time you cued up a record in your Superman pyjamas.... A very astute summation Marco, especially the last paragraph. I am under no illusions that the LP12 isn't the pinnacle of vinyl reply, but as any turntable I might 'currently' settle for is likely to be used infrequently, then it doesn't have to be. What it does have to do is blend into its surroundings, especially if its going to be used infrequently - it will need to fit into a clutter free (tidy) contemporary room and not look out of place. I think on reflection and with all the help/comments I have had (which are most appreciated and have proved very useful indeed) I will most likely source something affordable and temporary for the short term, that will allow me to play records without spending too much and be able to be sold later on if needs be - but I will keep the 401 for the time being. If after a year or so I still find myslef playing and enjoying records, I will then be in a better position to decide if I go the whole hog and do a proper job on the 401, as I now know how to make it fit both my sonic and esthetic needs, but that will require a not insignificant investment of both time and money - there's no point in doing that if I'm only going to play an LP once or twice a month and my idea of what's esthetically pleasing may not be the same as the next man's, so it's resale value will be no where near the amount invested, as I intend to change it's appearance so it won't be a classic unmolested 401 as frankly I find those pig ugly! (the 'Sable' Audio Grail you have linked to is definitely headed toward the right ball park Marco) And to those that don't know me that well, who might be reading this and thinking what a 'tool', bear in mind that I'm not an audiophile, I'm a music fan where the music itself (not the gear), always comes first and that's where my money goes (who told you about my Superman pyjamas . . . ?)Thanks for all the replies chaps, it really does help. . . . Garrards with a 50's feel to them appeal far more to my eye. +1
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Post by walpurgis on Jul 26, 2014 12:49:41 GMT
I rather like the 401. Mine sounded just fine, so did the silver 301 and the white 301 I owned, but I actually prefered the Goldring G88 and G99 I had afterwards. The Techies weren't bad either. Did not really come to terms with any of the Regas I tried though. Currently running a Toshiba SR-370.
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Marco
Rank: Trio
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Post by Marco on Jul 26, 2014 13:57:16 GMT
However, in terms of the "AoS Techy crowd", I think you've received a similar answer here to your query, to what you'd have got over there!! Bear in mind too, that as much as we love the Techy on AoS, we also are BIG into vintage idler-drive T/Ts. In fact, in reality, outwith of The Techiepedia, I'd say that there's just as much passion amongst members on AoS for the latter, as there is for the former... What we're not into too much is modern belt-drive T/Ts, and given that the LP12 was first introduced in 1972, I think it deserves to be called a classic! Do I like them? Yes; certain ones in certain systems, as they vary so much in terms of how one has 'pimped' them, with either Linn parts or those from a multitude of other companies. In that respect, I always enjoy listening to good ones. With the right music, they can 'boogie like a b*stard', and have a lovely (if ultimately coloured) 'elastic sounding', rhythmic bass. PRAT is also in the first rank, although a good modified Techy can easily 'out-PRAT' an LP12, due to the former's rock-soild speed stability. Do I think that an LP12 (no matter how judiciously 'pimped') represents the pinnacle of what is achievable from vinyl reply? No, quite simply because I believe that the 'low to medium-mass' belt-drive T/T route is fundamentally flawed, as indeed did Ivor T, all those years ago, where if circumstances had been different, the LP12 would've been a direct-drive design. That rather brutal fact is often deliberately overlooked by the Linn fanboys!! Do I think that you'd like an LP12 in your system? Yes, no question, as the 'feel good factor' (due to the fact that you LOVE its looks, and how it would function in your room as an attractive ornament) would easily override its sonic limitations, every time you cued up a record in your Superman pyjamas.... And to those that don't know me that well, who might be reading this and thinking what a 'tool'.... . . Garrards with a 50's feel to them appeal far more to my eye. +1 Come on now - as if!! Well...ahem.... Marco. P.S You told me that you kept your Superman pyjamas next to where your adult babygro with 'Timbo' written on it lives, remember? [We discussed it at the last convention].
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Post by gazjam on Jul 26, 2014 18:37:29 GMT
Tim, worth looking at the Lenco's too as a "testbed" turntable?
Not too much money to get a great sounding deck set up and LOADS of helpful info over on Lenco Heaven site.
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