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Post by MartinT on Sept 7, 2018 5:48:41 GMT
This is one of the great Beethoven symphonies (they were the odd numbered 3, 5, 7, 9 ones) with some fantastic orchestration showing his direction in later years towards some atonality and dissonance, especially in the 9th symphony. I'll admit it straight off, I love this symphony for the 2nd movement Allegretto which features some of the most lyrical and soaring music ever written for strings. I first heard it in the SF film Zardoz and it has stuck with me ever since. However, the whole symphony, despite it being less well known, is up there with the 5th for its compositional greatness.
I've chosen the Abbado recording from 1987 as I've always thought of him as a great Beethoven conductor. The VPO really nail it, sounding superb throughout.
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 7, 2018 15:30:41 GMT
Vienna Phil & Abbado should be a potent combination - listening now ...
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 7, 2018 17:26:49 GMT
It's a generous 3/5 from me!
Cannot fault the way it is played but this work typifies why I just don't get on with most Beethoven - I find it music to be respected rather than enjoyed.
Whilst there are of course some memorable musical themes, it just doesn't move me in any way and I don't feel any emotional connection to it. More than that, I find it slightly cold and distant.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2018 17:47:40 GMT
I personally really like the Beethoven 9 symphonies and this one in particular is very good indeed. Think I will give it a 5/5.
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Post by MartinT on Sept 7, 2018 19:10:09 GMT
it just doesn't move me in any way and I don't feel any emotional connection to it. More than that, I find it slightly cold and distant. Even the 2nd movement, Jules? |
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Post by Slinger on Sept 7, 2018 22:53:27 GMT
I've got the 7th conducted by Rattle, Weingartner, Bernstein, Kleiber, von Karajan, and Edlinger, but not Abbado.
I'll probably go with the Kleiber as it seems to be the most highly regarded.
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 8, 2018 4:15:25 GMT
Abbado? Interesting choice, I've not heard that. Not usually impressed by him. At all. My fave up to now is Anton Nanut's although I know of many wonderful recordings. And there are also about a zillion that I haven't yet heard. If the 7th doesn't make you want to dance joyously around the room then you are listening to the wrong recording of it.  And as Martin says, the slow movement has a grand majestic sweep and soaring lyricism that should that should blow you away. As for Jules's opinion of Beethoven - totally beyond my comprehension. Beethoven is the greatest composer ever and the Master of transcribing emotion into music! Ah well. ..... Vive la difference!  |
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 8, 2018 5:44:26 GMT
No, Abbado's music making seems, as ever, to be a somewhat joyless affair to me. I've returned to Nanut, and it's just a world of difference. Sure, it's a 2nd rate orchestra, but for me the joy and exuberance of the music is wonderfully conveyed. 5/5 for the music, once you have found a recording that suits you. For those for whom Anton Nanut and the Ljubliana RSO are an obscurity too far, I can recommend Karajan, although he lacks the last ounce of springiness and joyous abandon to be found in Nanut's step. |
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Post by MartinT on Sept 8, 2018 9:38:30 GMT
The Kleiber would have been my other choice. His 5th is magnificent, the best by far.
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 8, 2018 10:55:38 GMT
it just doesn't move me in any way and I don't feel any emotional connection to it. More than that, I find it slightly cold and distant. Even the 2nd movement, Jules? Surprisingly yes! |
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 8, 2018 11:02:24 GMT
Abbado? Interesting choice, I've not heard that. Not usually impressed by him. At all. My fave up to now is Anton Nanut's although I know of many wonderful recordings. And there are also about a zillion that I haven't yet heard. If the 7th doesn't make you want to dance joyously around the room then you are listening to the wrong recording of it. And as Martin says, the slow movement has a grand majestic sweep and soaring lyricism that should that should blow you away. As for Jules's opinion of Beethoven - totally beyond my comprehension. Beethoven is the greatest composer ever and the Master of transcribing emotion into music! Ah well. ..... Vive la difference! Agreed - that's one of the interesting things about doing these album choices - we get to see how differently we all react to music! Even I was surprised by the lack of connection I had to the slow movement; I actually wanted to like it much more than I did. The only Beethoven I currently have in my collection is the Violin Concerto and the Triple Concerto. The Violin is one of my favourite works of all time. The reason I mention this is that it's always a disappointment to me that other Beethoven works don't do it for me in the same way. I'll listen to your two recommendations here Jerry and see if I get a different response. |
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Post by Slinger on Sept 8, 2018 13:45:46 GMT
Just a bit of fun. The four versions mentioned so far, and their relative timings. Von K was always going to "win" but Nanut runs him close. The second movement is interesting though, as Kleiber suddenly stomps on the accelerator and Nanut hits the brakes. In every other movement, the differences in pace are consistent across the four versions. | Movement | ABBADO | KLEIBER | NANUT | Von KARAJAN | | 1 | 14:32 | 13:36 | 11:53 | 11:35 | | 2 | 08:40 | 08:09 | 08:57 | 08:01 | | 3 | 09:08 | 08:15 | 07:35 | 07:21 | | 4 | 08:55 | 08:36 | 06:46 | 06:27 | | Total | 41:15 | 38:36 | 35:11 | 33:24 |
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Post by MartinT on Sept 8, 2018 18:33:52 GMT
I still like Abbado's pace, especially in the 2nd movement which needs to be expansive. Not so the mid 80's DG recording which is the usual hard and glassy effort similar to all their output during that time.
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 9, 2018 6:54:24 GMT
...... Not so the mid 80's DG recording which is the usual hard and glassy effort similar to all their output during that time. It's not state of the art sound, I agree, but I find it quite listenable. |
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 12, 2018 13:31:23 GMT
No, Abbado's music making seems, as ever, to be a somewhat joyless affair to me. I've returned to Nanut, and it's just a world of difference. Sure, it's a 2nd rate orchestra, but for me the joy and exuberance of the music is wonderfully conveyed. For those for whom Anton Nanut and the Ljubliana RSO are an obscurity too far, I can recommend Karajan, although he lacks the last ounce of springiness and joyous abandon to be found in Nanut's step. So I have returned to this and listened in full to the Nanut. It's certainly more enjoyable and reminds me more of a live performance in its spontaneity; there are a few rough edges and at times they don't all appear to be on the same page, but it doesn't matter in the least such is the enthusiasm on display ... I'm no further converted to Beethoven, but if this was part of a concert programme I wouldn't run away ... I'm also rather enjoying the Karajan Allegretto. |
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Post by Slinger on Sept 12, 2018 16:51:41 GMT
4/5 for me - not quite great. It might just be the mood I'm in or the recording I listened to, but I had trouble making an emotional connection to the music, good though it was. I was quite happy to keep buggering about on the computer and to do my weekly online grocery shopping whilst it was playing. At no time did I feel the urge to "just listen" to it.
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 12, 2018 17:54:36 GMT
No, Abbado's music making seems, as ever, to be a somewhat joyless affair to me. I've returned to Nanut, and it's just a world of difference. Sure, it's a 2nd rate orchestra, but for me the joy and exuberance of the music is wonderfully conveyed. For those for whom Anton Nanut and the Ljubliana RSO are an obscurity too far, I can recommend Karajan, although he lacks the last ounce of springiness and joyous abandon to be found in Nanut's step. So I have returned to this and listened in full to the Nanut. It's certainly more enjoyable and reminds me more of a live performance in its spontaneity; there are a few rough edges and at times they don't all appear to be on the same page, but it doesn't matter in the least such is the enthusiasm on display ... I'm no further converted to Beethoven, but if this was part of a concert programme I wouldn't run away ... I'm also rather enjoying the Karajan Allegretto. Ah well , so Beethoven orchestral is not for you. At least you do appreciate what Nanut (and HvK) brings to it over the likes of Abbado. How about chamber music and piano sonatas? Are you immune to their charm as well, or haven't you given them much of a try? |
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 13, 2018 16:41:18 GMT
So I have returned to this and listened in full to the Nanut. It's certainly more enjoyable and reminds me more of a live performance in its spontaneity; there are a few rough edges and at times they don't all appear to be on the same page, but it doesn't matter in the least such is the enthusiasm on display ... I'm no further converted to Beethoven, but if this was part of a concert programme I wouldn't run away ... I'm also rather enjoying the Karajan Allegretto. Ah well , so Beethoven orchestral is not for you. At least you do appreciate what Nanut (and HvK) brings to it over the likes of Abbado. How about chamber music and piano sonatas? Are you immune to their charm as well, or haven't you given them much of a try? . I would be happy to give some chamber music a go - heard some at concerts but never really explored in much detail. Do you have any favourite recordings? |
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