Juha
Rank: Soloist
Posts: 24
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Post by Juha on Mar 15, 2018 16:23:37 GMT
B&W CM1 is a small 2-way bookshelf speaker with a kevlar 5-inch bass/midrange driver. CM2 is a supporting pillar, which houses a pair of rear-facing drivers to cover the low frequencies. Together this is called Concept 90 from 1987. Somehow this had lost the tweeter top end sheen. Could this be a ferrofluid issue or xover recap. Decided to order main caps from Falconacoustics. They had Alcaps available with 5% tolerances (as specified by the B&W parts list). This combination has two crossovers. One for the CM2 unit and then one for CM1. I am not recapping the low frequencies xover as it sounds ok. How badly off were the 1987 caps? Here's a list. 35 uf was 40 uf 20 uf was 22.5 uf 3.5 uf was 4.1 uf 9 uf was 10.3 uf Did one speaker and the compared. The recapped one sounded better. Top end was back. Then it turned out that the other one had a factory issue. There was one very, very bad solder joint just on the tweeter circuit. This may have contributed to the problem. Anyway, all good now. The somewhat metallic tweeter sound is back in full glory. On the sweet spot these sound rather nice.
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Post by MikeMusic on Mar 15, 2018 18:24:13 GMT
Well done !
Great fix and nice price
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Post by ChrisB on Mar 15, 2018 19:03:07 GMT
An old school friend of mine had some of these. I only heard them once but thought they sounded great. He worked as an engineer for B&W for a while, so was able to buy things quite cheaply - luckily for him, as I think these were quite expensive at the time. He moved to Japan to work for Panasonic.
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Juha
Rank: Soloist
Posts: 24
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Post by Juha on Mar 16, 2018 9:21:27 GMT
Concept 90 original price was 1650 USD for a pair. A lot of money in 1987. The CM1 part is all cast aluminium. Very rigid and high quality work. This is not far from the smaller Genelec monitors. Proportions are about the same.
According to Stereophile the CM1 tweeter is related to B&W 801 tweeter. The mid/bass is actually Kevlar yellow. It has just been painted black.
My reference is the Yamaha NS1000. Before recap/repair Concept 90 were unusable. Now happy camper. These require lots of amplification. Now running an "a-class" amp CEC AMP3300.
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Post by ChrisB on Mar 16, 2018 10:36:14 GMT
How do you find the bass performance?
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Juha
Rank: Soloist
Posts: 24
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Post by Juha on Mar 16, 2018 10:56:07 GMT
I like the solid sound stage. Different tweeter sound. The Cm2 bass unit is a back firing system with 2 woofers and a reflex hole. Front firing bass would be more immediate. I would say that bass on this system is as good as my Kef 104/2. The Kef also has indirect bass. Modern bass heavy music is acceptable on Concept 90.
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Post by ChrisB on Mar 16, 2018 11:06:36 GMT
I must say that the bass was far better than I was expecting when I heard them. I have always been generally unimpressed by most B&W speakers I have heard, but these, I quite liked.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2018 12:14:16 GMT
They look interesting. I’m sure that Rogers made a similar designed pair in the 1990’s.
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Juha
Rank: Soloist
Posts: 24
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Post by Juha on Mar 16, 2018 12:29:12 GMT
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pokey
Rank: Starter
Posts: 1
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Post by pokey on Sept 26, 2019 15:21:41 GMT
Juha,
I hope you're still enjoying these loudspeakers. I have a pair of CM1s I bought new in 1988 and used with a lot of different equipment for 10 years until stumbling across a great deal on a pair of JMLab Micron Carats. Back in the day I had replaced the crossovers with simpler ones, using Solen poly caps and litz inductors and foregoing the APOC circuitry - paired with a modified B&K ST-140 and Lazarus tube preamp (and later vintage Marantz and Dynaco tube amps) these speakers used to truly amaze people with their sound.
I'm currently working on refurbishing these CM1s for my teenage son. Being a roaming student on a work/study program for the first few years that I owned these, they endured a lot of abuse during relocations and eventually the white paint started flaking quite badly. Also, I had mounted the crossovers externally - partly because the litz inductors were so much larger but mostly in case I wanted to tweak them further - and then when I eventually decided to put them into indefinite storage (read: "kids entered the picture") I decided to carefully relocate the crossover components inside the cabinets. Following that exercise they never quite sounded right, and only after I pulled them out a few months ago did I remember that these speakers had the same problem when brand new - back then I quickly figured out that one of the drivers was out-of-phase and my local dealer quickly fixed that - but because the polarity of the driver itself was mislabeled and I had forgotten about this, I accidentally reintroduced the original problem...
Anyhow, happy for you that you have the CM2s as well. They really sounded wonderful together - the same dealer let me demo the CM2s for a weekend but as a working student I could barely afford the $1000 CDN for the CM1s let alone the additional $1600 CDN they were asking for the CM2s. By the time I could seriously consider them, they were no longer available. For a few years I toyed with trying to build something similar myself but that eventually led to building other speakers instead. Now that information like the original crossover schematics is freely available, I have a lot more insight into what the designers intended as a starting point. If my son does like these enough (and they survive long enough) I may yet try to tackle that challenge.
Cheers, Richard
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Post by MartinT on Sept 26, 2019 18:41:52 GMT
Calling Juha as he hasn't posted here in a while.
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