Getting speaker positioning right is an art form. I never managed it in my previous room (and no amount of room treatment could pull it completely right) but in this room I just fell on it almost straight away. Just a bit further apart and bang, everything came into focus and outside of the speakers.

The supports for my speakers are more amusing. I cannot use the big cone feet here due to a ceramic tile floor. I happened to have an unopened packet of Lidl washing machine feet and thought I'd try them. They were so successful that I'm still using them now!

I kinda like either "free space" or "hard against a wall" speakers. The "in betweenness" especially rear ported speakers are often frustrating, because the "right" place can vary from recording to recording. Of course, finding a room big enough to give you "free space" is a challenge in itself.

The one widely claimed foo is that the Yamaha NS1000M has to be off the wall by a few feet for a better sound. But bass is lacking. I have spent the best part of 10 years looking to confirm that, but so far no luck. I must have a better built sample of the NS1000M...

Martin, seems like you are struggling with the idea that I'm allowed to have an opinion that differs from your own.

Saying that I think a product is foo isn't the same as calling you an idiot. 

All it says is that this product falls below the level that I set for evidentiary credibility. It has no basis in science and no peer reviewed testing or measurement to support its claimed performance.

You being offended by me thinking it's foo is about as daft as me being offended by the implication that i don't have the same magic ears that you have because I can't hear the difference that fuses make. I don't think you're making some implicit statement about the poor quality of my  hearing or the quality of your system vs mine just because you hear a difference that i don't. So do me the favour of not thinking I'm belittling you in some way because I think the fuses are foo. 

They perfectly fit with my definition of foo, expensive, unproven, unprovable and flying in the face in audio and electrical engineering science. 

From an evolutionary perspective we are programmed to see and hear things that don't exist.  Take cavemen (and women) who wake in the night and think they heard a bear in the cave. From an evolutionary perspective those who wake up and hear something that they find isn't there after checking for bears lose only a few minutes sleep. Whereas those who sleep soundly and never wake during the night will get killed by the bear who does eventually wander into the cave.

and that is why we hear small differences when there are none. 

I must admit to being very surprised at people being offended by the use of the word, quite shocked actually. People directly comment on the music I like as being crap/dreck or suchlike, are they calling me an idiot? Maybe, maybe not - but I'm not offended and I keep doing it as I like it. To me that's the same thing surely?

I thought *foo* was an accepted term for audio products that are of questionable value, some will like them, some won't, but being so sensitive to think someone's calling you an idiot because they don't agree with you leaves me scratching my head to be honest

I guess as said by Clive the way it's delivered is key, down the pub I might smile and call someone a fecking eejit, normally it'll get a laugh - do that here and likely I'll upset someone.

My previous post asked what could be used as a non-pejorative term for foo since a discussion of the phenomena and its products becomes comically absurd if it is always necessary to find a PC description. It's like the term Hi-fi being deemed pejorative and wanting to talk about "that hobby associated with products which reproduce recorded music to either produce a preferred sound experience, often with more volume without distortion, but which literally is intended to be an accurate reproduction of the original source with the output bearing as near as possible a perfect but amplified copy of the original... "

It spoils the flow if you can't just say" Hi-fi "

In the light of Spicas post and wonkys post on the audiophile fuses thread, I wonder if the term" faith" products might not be the appropriate PC label for foo.

Despite Martins protests of atheism, the fuse (and other foo) phenomena is essentially similar to religious faith, as Spica pointed out.

There is no science to support the claimed hearing experiences of the proponents. Neither acceptable theory, nor experimental evidence. Indeed the experiences of proponents often directly contradict current scientific knowledge,.

As with religion, proponents of faith products propose that science cannot explain everything and extrapolate that self-evident truth to imply that fairly stable and established functioning and useful science is flawed, based only on their personal (sometimes collective} experiences.

And as with religion, it is wrong to challenge those experiences, although acceptable to question how they arise. When Martin, Mike or the Moon report that they hear music differently when they change the orientation of a fuse in the mains supply to equipment they are honestly sharing what is a deeply personal internal experience. One which is fundamentaly real to them. Just as when the congregation at my brother in laws church feel the presence of the Holy spirit during intense parts of the service, they are (collectively) experiencing something very real and personal and internal to them. Neither can or should be challenged. Both experiences are personal and internal and real, although incapable of mainstream explanation or demonstration.

My brother in law concedes he cannot bring God or Jesus to tea with me in the same way foo cannot (by definition) be objectively demonstrated.
Should we refer to foo as faith products to be PC?

NO.

Martin

This is a thread about foo.  I respected your request to leave the audiophile fuse thread locked down to discussions by believers.  As you pointed out, there are plenty of other threads to post on if you don't like this one.  It seems a perfectly legitimate area for discussion in a forum about HiFi - and the post was directly relevant to the thread subject.

Your statement that a group of believers...

MOD: and that's where it stops.  Group of believers?  One more post of this kind, Richard, and you can go elsewhere.

No further warnings.