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Post by ChrisB on Nov 26, 2017 12:57:51 GMT
I found it rather uninvolving and kept finding my mind wandering elsewhere. I also agree about the keyboards - I often struggle with them in a lot of music and this was one of those times.
So, not so good for me.
2/10
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Post by Slinger on Nov 26, 2017 13:56:22 GMT
I gave it a good go, but not for me. I actually found it somewhat boring and lacking in inventiveness. It was all played very well, by excellent musicians, but did nothing and went nowhere as far as I was concerned. I'll give it 5, but I wouldn't buy it. Track 1 was actually my favourite. It sounded like an impression of Brian Eno freaking out during an ambient session.  |
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Post by rfan8312 on Nov 26, 2017 17:56:50 GMT
Spill then, Tim. Is it for you? Well I did listen to it all the way through, taking the advice to discount the first track as that is . . . well lets leave it there eh! Anyhoots, not something I would normally listen to despite liking contemporary jazz and the old classics. Reminded me a lot of Weather Report in places. What I did like and it's what pulled me through to the end, was the bass playing and a lot of the drumming. If you replaced the electronic keys with a piano I would have enjoyed it a lot more. What I didn't like and never have since the days of Weather Report and Chick Corea, is the keyboard work like for example The Bellows 3min in. This to my taste is pretty dire and just sounds so amateur and there's a lot of it throughout the record. Of it's time I guess, but I never got into it when it was of it's time. It does sound very much like a Hi-Fi demo recording and I don't have a lot of time for those either, I like listening to music not Hi-Fi. Despite all that is deserves 5/10 for the standard of musicianship and the great bass lines,which I really enjoyed. But it's not my type of music, give me Tord Gustavsen or EST any day, or Coleman Hawkins there's so many Jazz records I would reach for before this. Always good to learn something new though, so thanks for challenging us  Thanks guys. I do have a question. Would it be appropriate for me to recommend another album in this thread in case anyone would like to hear it on their own time? I have one in mind, that, after this honest/informed/ constructive pummelling that Dreams, Nightmares and Improvisations has received, I feel very eager to hear you fellows opinions of what you are hearing from another album that means as much to me as Dreams does, but from a completely different sound and energy. Although I don't mind just waiting for another Album Choice if you guys prefer to keep each thread more focused on the album at hand. BTW, I have been scouring the net trying to find if the sounds at 3 minutes into The Billows is from an ordinary keyboard, the keyboard on the Synth Axe or the actual SynthAxe strings. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2017 18:01:35 GMT
If it’s a similar flavour, then go for it, or you could keep it a surprise for us until your next turn |
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Post by MartinT on Nov 26, 2017 18:10:19 GMT
Sure, it's your thread so if you think there's a link to something else we should listen to then go for it!
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Post by ChrisB on Nov 26, 2017 18:15:06 GMT
Of course. It's a natural progression of the discussion about this album. Further listening should be a feature of every good Album Choice thread.
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Post by rfan8312 on Nov 26, 2017 18:51:14 GMT
If it’s a similar flavour, then go for it, or you could keep it a surprise for us until your next turn Hmm. Ok how about this. The album I'm dying to get some opinions on I will indeed wait for my next turn, but, I'd like to give an honorable mention to an album that maybe some people would consider of a similar ilk to the one posted in this thread. But it is a favorite of mine aside from two slow tracks. Jazz Pistols - Special Treatment I'd be interested to know if you guys find this album as boring as the Chad Wackerman album this thread is based on. Again, no vocals but imo there is supreme guitar and bass interplay here. To me the most arresting moments on this album come from tracks Special Treatment, Bugs, Vix 9 and Odd Blues as well as Angry Dragon. The weakest tracks, which I would have preferred omitted entirely are Mr. Smithers and Dirty Sanchez. BTW, I think if anyone would care to listen the Jazz Pistols track "Three On The Floor" from the album Jazz Pistols Live album they would get a pretty good example of what seems to be driving my musical tastes and what led me to get into Dreams, Nightmares and Improvisations. Instead of continuing the endlessly here I'll try to make my explanation concise. I find myself looking for anything that astounds me in just how it sounds, maybe that is superficial. But if you listen to the drum feature at 3:40 of Three On The Floor(live), with it's accompanying bass line, to me that is the type of moment in music that makes me stop what I'm doing and just listen. After hearing that I started searching for other albums, bands and songs that could either sound like that, similar to it or that could stop me in my tracks like that. What I found in Dreams, Nightmares and Improvisations was a sort of form of Three On The Floor style music, but in a more sterile sounding fashion. Sterile it seemed at first to me but the album grew on me. The trade off was bass lines not as fun as Jazz Pistols, and less dynamics in the creativity, but with one of the most cohesive sounds amongst the tracks giving the album it's own feel, and I started to actually like how those strange nearly irritating SynthAxe leads and keyboards fit in amongst some damn nice grooves coming from a damn solid bass and drums section. Anyway, ye so enough babbling, if you guys have the time or will, do your worst. I'm very interested to know if you guys find any of the above mentioned Jazz Pistols treats to be of any bit more interesting to you or if it belongs in your opinions in the same basket as Dreams, Nightmares and Improvisations. |
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Post by Stratmangler on Nov 26, 2017 20:25:58 GMT
I wouldn't consider anyone else's thoughts on a proposed album of the month.
I was rather pleased that you brought Dreams, Nightmares & Improvisations up, because I knew from the off it would be extremely challenging to the majority of listeners, and as a result be somewhat divisive.
With Chad being of the drumming persuasion, things are rhythmically driven - there are a couple of fine examples of the Purdie Shuffle to be heard, plus one or two tracks with a seemingly unstructured flow that Frank Zappa utilised to great effect on both Joe's Garage, and Thing Fish.
The keyboard stuff that most have moaned about isn't keyboard, and the majority of the work sounds like it was improvised.
I like it (all of it, including Glass Lullaby).
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Post by rfan8312 on Nov 26, 2017 21:11:09 GMT
I wouldn't consider anyone else's thoughts on a proposed album of the month. I was rather pleased that you brought Dreams, Nightmares & Improvisations up, because I knew from the off it would be extremely challenging to the majority of listeners, and as a result be somewhat divisive. With Chad being of the drumming persuasion, things are rhythmically driven - there are a couple of fine examples of the Purdie Shuffle to be heard, plus one or two tracks with a seemingly unstructured flow that Frank Zappa utilised to great effect on both Joe's Garage, and Thing Fish. The keyboard stuff that most have moaned about isn't keyboard, and the majority of the work sounds like it was improvised. I like it (all of it, including Glass Lullaby). Very interesting. You mentioned the bemoaned keyboard stuff, not really being keyboard. I've been trying to find out how I can decipher which is keyboard, if any, and which is SynthAxe. I've done so.e youtubing to compare tones as well between the tracks on this album and what I'm seeing being played on YouTube. Any idea what is making that Melody/notes at the opening of Bent Bayou? |
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Post by Stratmangler on Nov 26, 2017 23:15:24 GMT
The drums and bass are self apparent.
The other voice is none other than Allan Holdsworth - it could be Synthaxe, but it could equally be electric guitar. You start using a volume pedal and a delay, and your playing can start to sound like anything but a guitar.
The chord voicings, and the way they're played, is straight down the line guitar. Straight down the line for Allan Holdsworth, that is!
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Post by rfan8312 on Nov 26, 2017 23:34:50 GMT
Haha yes. I've never even been a huge Holdsworth fan , although I can see why people are. The few things I've heard him on are amazing, with a few instances where it just wasn't for me. I think one of the most beautiful things I've heard is a track called Fred 2011 which appears on some kind of a compilation album called Dirty & Beautiful by Gary Husband. I've purchased a few songs from both Dirty & Beautiful Volumes 1 and 2, on Google Play Music. But I can't find it anymore on Spotify or SoundCloud to link it here. It wouldn't be for everyone, but to me it sounds like a song structured by nature itself. Corny explanation. But it's like a Melody and a vibe on that recording of Fred 2011 that sounds like the opposite of something that is forced or contrived. With such elegant sounding moments. Apologies as I flail away trying to describe it lol. Here is the album cover that the song Fred 2011 appears on featuring Holdsworth... goo.gl/images/8UVEqg |
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Post by Stratmangler on Nov 26, 2017 23:43:10 GMT
The is a tune titled "Fred" on the album "Blues For Tony".  |
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Post by rfan8312 on Nov 27, 2017 0:11:06 GMT
Yes absolutely. I did purchase a few tracks from that album early in my fusion-jazz beginnings and then eventually found versions of those same songs on other albums that were all imo better versions.
Fred imo is played at a more relaxed tempo, it seems, with a much nicer sounding solo on the Dirty & Beautiful Vol. 2.
Thanks for the reminder. I did just go back and listen to Red Alert, a good one on Blues for Tony and Protocosmos, another good one.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 9:53:06 GMT
I'd love to try album choice again I have a couple more items I'd like to post that are bit more exciting and engaging. We’d love you to do so too, I’ll add your name to the Master Rota at the next available time and let you know I have added you to the Master Rota for next year, Robert, on April (1), 1st April |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 10:31:00 GMT
I wouldn't consider anyone else's thoughts on a proposed album of the month. I totally agree with you on this one, Chris, and I certainly wouldn't want anyone getting upset or put out by comments made in this section, I doubt you'd ever find a single album that everyone on this forum, or in the world for that matter would all like. |
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Post by rfan8312 on Nov 27, 2017 14:19:18 GMT
We’d love you to do so too, I’ll add your name to the Master Rota at the next available time and let you know I have added you to the Master Rota for next year, Robert, on April (1), 1st April Ok thanks |
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Post by rfan8312 on Nov 27, 2017 17:27:42 GMT
If it’s a similar flavour, then go for it, or you could keep it a surprise for us until your next turn Hmm. Ok how about this. The album I'm dying to get some opinions on I will indeed wait for my next turn, but, I'd like to give an honorable mention to an album that maybe some people would consider of a similar ilk to the one posted in this thread. But it is a favorite of mine aside from two slow tracks. Jazz Pistols - Special Treatment I'd be interested to know if you guys find this album as boring as the Chad Wackerman album this thread is based on. Again, no vocals but imo there is supreme guitar and bass interplay here. To me the most arresting moments on this album come from tracks Special Treatment, Bugs, Vix 9 and Odd Blues as well as Angry Dragon. The weakest tracks, which I would have preferred omitted entirely are Mr. Smithers and Dirty Sanchez. BTW, I think if anyone would care to listen the Jazz Pistols track "Three On The Floor" from the album Jazz Pistols Live album they would get a pretty good example of what seems to be driving my musical tastes and what led me to get into Dreams, Nightmares and Improvisations. Instead of continuing the endlessly here I'll try to make my explanation concise. I find myself looking for anything that astounds me in just how it sounds, maybe that is superficial. But if you listen to the drum feature at 3:40 of Three On The Floor(live), with it's accompanying bass line, to me that is the type of moment in music that makes me stop what I'm doing and just listen. After hearing that I started searching for other albums, bands and songs that could either sound like that, similar to it or that could stop me in my tracks like that. What I found in Dreams, Nightmares and Improvisations was a sort of form of Three On The Floor style music, but in a more sterile sounding fashion. Sterile it seemed at first to me but the album grew on me. The trade off was bass lines not as fun as Jazz Pistols, and less dynamics in the creativity, but with one of the most cohesive sounds amongst the tracks giving the album it's own feel, and I started to actually like how those strange nearly irritating SynthAxe leads and keyboards fit in amongst some damn nice grooves coming from a damn solid bass and drums section. Anyway, ye so enough babbling, if you guys have the time or will, do your worst. I'm very interested to know if you guys find any of the above mentioned Jazz Pistols treats to be of any bit more interesting to you or if it belongs in your opinions in the same basket as Dreams, Nightmares and Improvisations. Oops sorry I forgot to link to the album that I mentioned that in this post. It's the Jazz Pistols album Special Treatment. They have another album called Jazz Pistols Live which includes a track called "Three On The Floor" which is the track that got me looking for similar sounds which led me to Dreams, Nightmares and Improvisations. |
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Post by MartinT on Nov 27, 2017 18:13:02 GMT
I find myself looking for anything that astounds me in just how it sounds This is fascinating for me. I look for the same things in music: something that astounds me but also connects with me emotionally. It's the sound of music that hooks me, lyrics are vey much less important. In classical music, I like that most choral pieces are sung in Latin so that the words do not distract me from the music. In fact I really dislike solo and operatic performances sung in English. Yet you and I have found completely different music to satisfy those similar aims. I've tried Three on the Floor and it gets a little closer to what I can listen to. However, Jazz is a genre that I enjoy very much more live than recorded. I can tolerate only a little of the Jazz Pistols despite acknowledging their high levels of musicianship. EDIT: Tough Stuff is better. Do you listen to classical music at all? |
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Post by rfan8312 on Nov 28, 2017 2:28:05 GMT
I find myself looking for anything that astounds me in just how it sounds This is fascinating for me. I look for the same things in music: something that astounds me but also connects with me emotionally. It's the sound of music that hooks me, lyrics are vey much less important. In classical music, I like that most choral pieces are sung in Latin so that the words do not distract me from the music. In fact I really dislike solo and operatic performances sung in English. Yet you and I have found completely different music to satisfy those similar aims. I've tried Three on the Floor and it gets a little closer to what I can listen to. However, Jazz is a genre that I enjoy very much more live than recorded. I can tolerate only a little of the Jazz Pistols despite acknowledging their high levels of musicianship. EDIT: Tough Stuff is better. Do you listen to classical music at all? Yes I know what you mean. I purposely do not read the lyrics to any songs I love with vocals because often times what I imagine they are saying impresses me more than what I find out are the actual lyrics. I have never actually been able to get into classical music aside from one album, I can't remember the name of it, by Chopin. You mentioned listening to Jazz live. That would be a great experience. It would be great to live in an area filled with lots of good live shows to attend. Thanks for checking Jazz Pistols btw. |
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Post by MartinT on Nov 28, 2017 7:20:17 GMT
I used to live close enough to the Bass Clef in The Angel, London, to frequent it with a jazz loving friend. Some of those small gigs were outstanding.
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