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Post by julesd68 on Oct 13, 2017 17:18:47 GMT
I do get fed up with the perennial discussion about how classical music 'needs to change'.  However there are aspects of the discussion you cannot ignore. Here is a new survey "conducted by YouGov on behalf of Town Hall Symphony Hall, Birmingham asked over 2,000 adults what they thought were barriers to accessing classical music."
www.classical-music.com/news/classical-music-should-make-changes-says-pollI'm going to have a think about the results and come back to this but in the meantime I'd be interested to get your thoughts ... Here are the results -
More young children need to be inspired to learn a classical instrument and experience playing music - 47%
Concerts need to be performed outside stuffy concert halls and in more everyday places (e.g. parks, shopping malls, clubs) - 40%
Music should feature more prominently in the school curriculum - 39%
The big concerts always seem to take place in London, and not outside London - 35%
The elitist language and traditions that make it appear aloof need to end - 33%
Venues need to work harder to get more young people going to a concert - 32%
It needs to have greater appeal to a multi-cultural society / ethnic minorities - 20%
Music by contemporary composers is often pretentious and tuneless, and not enjoyable to listen to - 20%
Orchestras need to stop wearing dinner dress from a bygone age - 17%
Orchestras and artists need to be more active on social media - 15%
Classical music is too often dumbed down (e.g. Doctor Who Prom) - 11%
Don't know - 11%
Not applicable - There are no challenges to classical music being relevant or having a future - 7%
Other - 4%
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Post by Slinger on Oct 13, 2017 20:51:43 GMT
Step one - Stop calling it "Classical" music, it's too much of a catch-all pigeonhole to stuff it all in to. How can (for instance) Thomas Tallis, Max Richter, Gustav Mahler, and Alfred Schnittke all be considered part of one, single, movement i.e. Classical Music?
"Classical Music" already has too many negative connotations among those determined to dislike it, and it's a self-perpetuating dislike all the time we keep stuffing various disparate styles into the same box.
I find that the "multi-cultural / ethnic minority" question perhaps carries a little reminder of the good old British Raj. Why should we try to impose western musical styles on people who have their own traditional "classical" music which is being eroded by their own disinterested youth. Trying to replace it with an appreciation of Western Classical Music seems a tad discourteous, to me at least.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 13, 2017 21:23:22 GMT
More young children need to be inspired to learn a classical instrument and experience playing music - 47% I wish I had been inspired to play ANY instrument, but my mum couldn't afford private lessons. Knowing what I do now, guitar would have been my choice to cover almost any music. Step one - Stop calling it "Classical" music It's just a name for a big bunch of genres utilising acoustic instruments, although even then composers like Messiaen and Richter broke that rule. Confusingly, it's also the name for a time period of music between baroque and romantic. I call it all classical for the want of a better term. |
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 13, 2017 22:33:20 GMT
I find that the "multi-cultural / ethnic minority" question perhaps carries a little reminder of the good old British Raj. Why should we try to impose western musical styles on people who have their own traditional "classical" music which is being eroded by their own disinterested youth. Trying to replace it with an appreciation of Western Classical Music seems a tad discourteous, to me at least. Indeed. And why does the audience necessarily need to be more diverse? If there were 'ethnic minorities' who love classical music but assume they wouldn't be welcome at a concert, that would indeed be a terrible thing. But I've not actually seen any evidence to suggest that is the case. |
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 13, 2017 22:36:18 GMT
More young children need to be inspired to learn a classical instrument and experience playing music - 47% I wish I had been inspired to play ANY instrument, but my mum couldn't afford private lessons. Knowing what I do now, guitar would have been my choice to cover almost any music. That is indeed unfortunate Martin. Never too late to get started though! Look forward to seeing you rock out on a Les Paul or Flying V with a Marshall stack behind you in the music room!  Schools nowadays very often have free loans of instruments and cheap lessons. Of course with the advent of Chinese manufacturing power you can get decent instruments pretty cheaply as well ... |
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 13, 2017 22:39:15 GMT
< Orchestras need to stop wearing dinner dress from a bygone age - 17% >
I for one really like it that orchestras still maintain some kind of sartorial standards.
Gives the concert more of a sense of occasion.
It's certainly not an excuse to avoid a classical concert!
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 13, 2017 22:41:54 GMT
< The big concerts always seem to take place in London, and not outside London - 35%>
This does surprise me that so many people think that - it is complete bollocks after all.
I think it is more assumption than fact.
Yes you will get a big name soloist who might jet in to do a one-off in London but there are so many great concerts out there and not just in Birmingham, Glasgow and Manchester etc
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 13, 2017 22:47:53 GMT
Concerts need to be performed outside stuffy concert halls and in more everyday places (e.g. parks, shopping malls, clubs) - 40%
Concert halls are not in the least stuffy places, at least the ones I go to in London aren't! I wonder whether this is based on assumption or experience??
I would pass on the shopping malls myself but maybe some might enjoy that. Yes there could be more inventive settings - that's why those Yellow Lounge concerts in clubs seem to have been doing rather well.
I would love to see more concerts take place in beautiful historic settings, similar to the Schoenbrunn Palace concerts in Vienna.
We certainly have no shortage of potential venues in this country!
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Post by ChrisB on Oct 14, 2017 8:28:12 GMT
There is an interesting point of view being put forward in something I read yesterday, which is not unrelated to this very subject. The Devaluation of Music: It’s Worse Than You Think Starving artists have been affected by more than just piracy and streaming royalties Here's the link |
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Post by Stratmangler on Oct 14, 2017 8:48:41 GMT
Never too late to get started though! Look forward to seeing you rock out on a Les Paul or Flying V with a Marshall stack behind you in the music room! Is your Strat still in its case, or did you actually get around to doing something about learning how to play it yourself? |
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Post by Stratmangler on Oct 14, 2017 9:04:19 GMT
There is an interesting point of view being put forward in something I read yesterday, which is not unrelated to this very subject. The Devaluation of Music: It’s Worse Than You Think Starving artists have been affected by more than just piracy and streaming royalties Here's the linkIt is quite a thought provoking article. |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 14, 2017 9:52:32 GMT
I agree with Jules, concert halls are not in the least bit stuffy and audiences are a wide cross section of people. If there is some respect for the music and the occasion, then that is a good thing. I have found some conductors and orchestras to have a wicked sense of humor, too.
I think these ideas of stuffiness are propounded by those either who have never been, or who have only gone to small local concerts where the clientele is more of the green welly and poncy dressing up brigade.
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Post by ChrisB on Oct 14, 2017 10:00:08 GMT
Those who have never been, I think.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 14, 2017 10:05:51 GMT
There is good analysis in that article. Picking up on two things:
Spotify is barely surviving and yet gets blamed for tiny royalty payments. Is there just no way of making a living from being a musician any more? Being an orchestra member has long been known to require dedication and feature subsistence level pay.
Secondly, music in schools. Is this really happening in the US? There is so much good music where I work. Yesterday a trio were practicing in the hall and the choir are outstanding. If the chapel organ is being played I open my door to hear it better. The take-up of GCSE and A level is low, though.
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Post by Stratmangler on Oct 14, 2017 10:44:22 GMT
Secondly, music in schools. Is this really happening in the US? There is so much good music where I work. Yesterday a trio were practicing in the hall and the choir are outstanding. If the chapel organ is being played I open my door to hear it better. The take-up of GCSE and A level is low, though. Is your place of work a State funded establishment, Martin? The kind of thing you've just described reminds me of my education. I remember one primary school I attended had a school orchestra that played at every assembly. And it was just an ordinary primary school. My son's experiences have been a whole lot less inclusive than mine. |
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Post by Tim on Oct 14, 2017 10:50:51 GMT
I think these ideas of stuffiness are propounded by those either who have never been, or who have only gone to small local concerts where the clientele is more of the green welly and poncy dressing up brigade. Absolutely Martin, go to the Barbican for classical and you won't see a more diverse audience. Go to the Arts Centre in Poole and it's pretty much exclusively the blue rinse brigade. I feel old in the Barbican and young in Poole! Not been to a classical concert at St David's Hall for many years, but I suspect it'll be an older audience, but Cardiff University has grown significantly, so maybe it'll be more like a London audience. |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 14, 2017 11:20:38 GMT
Is your place of work a State funded establishment, Martin? No, it's an independent school. Music is taught compulsorily until Y9 and then becomes a GCSE option. For a small school, the orchestra is not bad. Being a girls' school, the choir really is very good and we have a few budding soloists who can sing a Pie Jesu as well as Sia's Chandelier. There is now a four-piece band, too. I recently bought the Music department 10 iPads because they want to form a GarageBand orchestra. I'm intrigued as to what it might sound like. Our Deputy Director of Music is an outstanding pianist from Malaysia. Listening to her play is always a pleasure. I dare say the state school model is slightly different. |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 14, 2017 11:26:26 GMT
I'm sure you know The Anvil well, Tim. We get some great bands there as well as some rather top rate orchestras visiting. I like it as a venue and the clientele just varies with the performances, as you might expect. It was all jeans and t-shirts for Anderson-Wakeman and blue-rinse for the Royal Philharmonic.
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Post by Tim on Oct 14, 2017 12:49:11 GMT
I do know The Anvil well, never saw a classical concert there though, I followed the Bournemouth Symphony a lot, but always in Poole. I expect the audience was similar though.
Certainly whenever I saw Americana/Country acts in Basingstoke I was one of the 'younger' members of the audience, but that's fairly common for the music I like, apart from London again.
I guess it's an age thing and growing with music for many, I find my interest in differing genre's has grown exponentially as I've aged, however I've always enjoyed classical since buying The Planets as a teenager. That was inside me though, as my family isn't musical and I hardly did anything at school. I've never know where my passion comes from?
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 14, 2017 14:03:28 GMT
I think these ideas of stuffiness are propounded by those either who have never been, or who have only gone to small local concerts where the clientele is more of the green welly and poncy dressing up brigade. Absolutely Martin, go to the Barbican for classical and you won't see a more diverse audience. Go to the Arts Centre in Poole and it's pretty much exclusively the blue rinse brigade. I feel old in the Barbican and young in Poole! Absolutely Tim, I'm a regular-ish Barbican punter and it's a very mixed audience, especially in terms of age. You always get some children, but I would really love to see more at classical concerts. However, I'm not surprised if a few got put off for life by Kyung-Wha Chung letting rip at some poor young child for coughing too much a couple of years back ... I will never forget that incident - awkward much!!  |
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