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Post by steveeb on Sept 29, 2017 10:25:12 GMT
OK, we all like to think we achieve better sound than the cost of the equipment suggests (you're excused this one Martin  ) So, forget what you actually paid for it. Forget what it looks like or the craftsmanship involved. If you could go into a HiFi emporium, listen to the exact same sound that you have at home, with the actual mechanics of creating it completely hidden from you, what price do you consider reasonably reflects the result you achieve from the sweat and tears of your system creation? |
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 29, 2017 11:04:59 GMT
2 shillings and sixpence. A half crown, to you. |
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Post by steveeb on Sept 29, 2017 11:56:10 GMT
Sold! Do you take Paypal?
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Post by MartinT on Sept 29, 2017 12:15:58 GMT
OK, we all like to think we achieve better sound than the cost of the equipment suggests (you're excused this one Martin ) Thanks - but I'd find the question nearly impossible to quantify like that. What about the path it took to get to where I am now, the trials and failures, the false paths, the equipment bought and sold, the advice received? No emporium has ever demonstrated the sound I'm getting at any cost. The very few show demos I've heard of a system up to the same levels of performance has been well into six figures. So, on that basis, I have a bit of a bargain! |
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Post by pinkie on Sept 29, 2017 12:19:38 GMT
I realise now that the figure is dwarfed by the price I put on my hearing - or general health. Although I am not as acutely affected as in July and August, my ear problem is still stopping any interest in listening to music and spoiling my life. I am looking at selling or borrowing to pay to get it fixed if I think a solution can be found. Convince me its a solution, and I would find a lot of money if I had to.
Back on topic, I think probably £10,000. That is probably double what it cost me, and double the budget I would have thought sane, but if I had to replace, and could get my current result for £10k and wasn't blessed with mates in the trade, then I would part with that. Maybe £15 if you twist my arm, and I have anything left after the ear.
And actual cost may push towards that if I get the ESL's professionally refurbed (if my dust cover repair, if I ever get round to it, doesn't persuade me a refurb is not needed)
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Post by MartinT on Sept 29, 2017 12:24:00 GMT
If I had a problem with my hearing I would spend every last penny I had to fix it. Nothing would depress me more.
I sincerely hope you can get it sorted, Richard.
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 29, 2017 13:08:50 GMT
I think the reason why most hifi forum dwellers think they have a "bargain" in terms of perceived over-achievement against price peers is that we have carefully honed our systems to meet our own personal subjective preferences.
The chances of someone else's choices 'beating' your own at any particular price point are therefore quite small, I'd imagine.
And in general, as Martin has noted, a substantial increase in ££££ would be required for a typical system sound to be equal to a system carefully honed to your personal preferences at a lower price.
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Post by zippy on Sept 29, 2017 13:21:18 GMT
....Back on topic, I think probably £10,000. .... I guess that's about the level I'd go for too (and about what my current system cost). So difficult to know the real answer because when I listen to it, I can't help think a few more pounds spent here and there would still improve it. On the other hand, whenever I listen to other similarly (or often higher) priced systems I usually come away thinking 'mine sounds just as good'. However, if auditory memory serves me, I believe previous systems I've had have sounded as good in their own way. Mostly they've been around the same price level as my current system, so maybe that proves £10,000 is some sort of cutoff point. |
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Post by MartinT on Sept 29, 2017 13:40:26 GMT
I think there's an optimum point where all your system components are balanced in their performance with no real bottlenecks. The cost of improving on such performance is high, though, as everything would need to be upgraded.
Conversely, a system which is underperforming could potentially be fixed by a simple improvement or one single component being upgraded at a much lower cost.
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Post by pinkie on Sept 29, 2017 14:30:33 GMT
If I had a problem with my hearing I would spend every last penny I had to fix it. Nothing would depress me more. I sincerely hope you can get it sorted, Richard. Thanks Martin Its not been fun - although I think it might be improving, and more importantly , maybe I am beginning to understand the cause, and if that is correct, then a treatment may be possible Actually right at this very minute it is almost right - but it fluctuates through the day. I have a UK GP appointment on 9 Oct, and a French ENT follow up on 17 Oct. I won't be embarrased if it just gets better in the meantime and I end up wasting their time. Not even slightly embarrassed. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2017 14:33:51 GMT
OK, we all like to think we achieve better sound than the cost of the equipment suggests (you're excused this one Martin ) So, forget what you actually paid for it. Forget what it looks like or the craftsmanship involved. If you could go into a HiFi emporium, listen to the exact same sound that you have at home, with the actual mechanics of creating it completely hidden from you, what price do you consider reasonably reflects the result you achieve from the sweat and tears of your system creation? Mine has cost me a few holidays and a couple of handbags, but How much would I be willing to pay in one lump to recreate the system? It is hard to tell, as I feel that given enough time, you can always find better forvthe money. Replacing it with a mainstream system with probably cost me somewhere between 5 to 10k, but I would not be willing to spend much more than 5k. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2017 14:36:54 GMT
If I had a problem with my hearing I would spend every last penny I had to fix it. Nothing would depress me more. I sincerely hope you can get it sorted, Richard. Thanks Martin Its not been fun - although I think it might be improving, and more importantly , maybe I am beginning to understand the cause, and if that is correct, then a treatment may be possible Actually right at this very minute it is almost right - but it fluctuates through the day. I have a UK GP appointment on 9 Oct, and a French ENT follow up on 17 Oct. I won't be embarrased if it just gets better in the meantime and I end up wasting their time. Not even slightly embarrassed. Good luck getting it sorted. We must catch up soon over a bbq'd "cote de beouf". If your hearing isn't right, we don't need to waste anytime playing with black discs, but hopefully you will be sorted soon. |
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 29, 2017 17:05:42 GMT
Given the various systems I heard at a show earlier in the year I will make a wild stab at 10-15k ish. Could even be more given the price of new gear nowadays. The good news was that I came away from the show with a real sense of satisfaction for what I already have. I heard some good individual components but there wasn't actually a system there that I would swap for mine. Best wishes to Richard for your forthcoming appointments.  |
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 29, 2017 17:15:05 GMT
My money has gone in the right direction - I say.
21 year old car bought in 2006 for £1700 still struggling on, clothes that are first and foremost comfortable, sensibly priced and only in fashion when someone buys me birthday or Christmas presents. No holidays for about 35 years running my own business. How much did that save ?!
Money went on the house I lived in and when I was teed off with where I was and had a reasonable pile of dough I moved up as far as I could. One jump was hairy with me being helped by squeezing the company's cash flow. Could have been awkward.
Cheapskate on most items except hifi, but even there I go for VFM.
Heard some lovely TAD gear for a few weeks. Best system I have ever heard but too much for me to justify to myself.
Thing about separates and all the bits we have is you focus on one item at a time, then scare yourself when you total the lot together - even when bought 2nd hand !
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Post by MartinT on Sept 29, 2017 18:53:27 GMT
The good news was that I came away from the show with a real sense of satisfaction for what I already have. That's the thing, isn't it? it's a very long time since I heard a system I prefer to my own, and I'm happy to focus on building my collection instead. |
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Post by ant on Sept 29, 2017 19:12:12 GMT
The price I put on my system is about 120 quid.
It is all one offs. I literally built it myself, there is not another system like it anywhere.
I could work out the material costs as I have records of what I have done, I could not work out the hours, the dead ends, the little odds and sods I havent kept a record of.
practically none of it is available to go and buy, the 120 quid figure is what i can remember paying for various bits as I look over at it now.
I dont have a ten grand system, I dont have a ten quid system, I just have my system.
What would it cost to get the sound im sat listening to now? Havent a clue.....
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Post by John on Sept 29, 2017 19:13:03 GMT
I like different systems for different reasons and battle with myself around upgrades. A part of me is always seeking for something more another part is very happy where I am now
As for value I had to take a different path to think outside the box to get to where I am as I could not afford what I wanted
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Post by steveeb on Sept 29, 2017 20:20:12 GMT
Interesting to see the thoughts the question throws up. I also value synergy and the application of knowledge acquired through the trial and error over time, as much as the gear itself. Limited funds has forced/ helped me maximise the potential of what I do have to a result greater than the sum of the parts.
The question occurred, when I impressed someone not previously exposed to any half decent system, who asked " So, how much would I have to pay in a shop to get a sound at that level for myself then?"
It threw me because although I could tot up the cost of equivalent or similar elements, without experience he would not extract the performance from them.
Getting to a similar level without the pain was going to cost a lot more - I'd just never considered what that figure might be.
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 1, 2017 8:57:50 GMT
It's not so much the money for me, it's the time. The sound we have all arrived at now is through years of buying, selling and box swapping ...
Imagine the number of hours it has taken! So in my mind I could never just walk into a hi-fi dealer and replicate that sound even with a suitcase of cash .
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Post by covenant on Oct 1, 2017 12:19:11 GMT
My appetite for new boxes is tempered by the amount of time I use my hifi. The last purchase was one of Stan Beresfords dacs at well under £300 and most of the rest is second hand, the speaker were kit built. Perhaps when I am not working 12 hour days I might be tempted to spend more. I guess mine has cost £2000 and would sell for less than half thet.
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