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Post by julesd68 on Sept 26, 2017 16:35:25 GMT
Ok Mahler lovers out there I have two questions for you.  1. Please recommend me just *one* Mahler work, short or long, that may not instantly convert me but will convince me that I need to buckle down and listen to more ... 2. I may have asked this before but I'd appreciate your recommendations for Mahler 3 vinyl - I have some genuine affection for this work as I was lucky enough to be part of the chorus as a youngster and would like to be reminded of former glories ...  I thank you. |
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Post by Slinger on Sept 26, 2017 16:48:21 GMT
I always think the best starting point is the 5 th and von Karajan did quite a good job on it in my opinion...which of course is not necessarily going to be your opinion.  |
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 26, 2017 17:29:17 GMT
Tennstedt EMI for Mahler 3. Not heard a better performance or recording of it - best recording on CD anyway, no idea what the LP pressing is like! :format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-5537621-1395944537-3992.jpeg.jpg) |
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 26, 2017 18:40:51 GMT
I always think the best starting point is the 5 th and von Karajan did quite a good job on it in my opinion...which of course is not necessarily going to be your opinion. Thanks Paul - have found that on spotify so will give it a listen ... I noticed it has been re-released by DG on vinyl which is good news. |
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Post by MartinT on Sept 26, 2017 18:41:16 GMT
Ok, here's a slightly off-beat recommendation:
Five Ruckert Lieder, Boulez, Minton, LSO. Simply wonderful.
As for the 3rd, it really has to be Haitink. His performances are epic.
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Post by MartinT on Sept 26, 2017 18:43:16 GMT
Of course, my most treasured vinyl Mahler is the 2nd by Tennstedt, LPO.
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 26, 2017 18:43:23 GMT
Tennstedt EMI for Mahler 3. Not heard a better performance or recording of it - best recording on CD anyway, no idea what the LP pressing is like! Thanks J - hmm 80's digital classical - I've had a few good results with Philips digital but not tried EMI yet ... |
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 26, 2017 18:52:48 GMT
Interesting that the Penguin Guide awards a rosette for Barbirolli's Mahler 5 so I might give that a listen too ...
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 26, 2017 18:58:53 GMT
So I will listen to -
3 - Tennstedt / Haitink
5 - Karajan / Barbirolli
Will report back. cheers m'dears ...
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Post by Slinger on Sept 26, 2017 21:31:49 GMT
And when you've finished with them you can bow before the majesty that is Tennstedt's (1987) recording of the 8 th symphony...or not. |
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Post by MartinT on Sept 27, 2017 7:00:17 GMT
And when you've finished with them you can bow before the majesty that is Tennstedt's (1987) recording of the 8 th symphony...or not. Tennstedt or Solti? Hmm, both brilliant performances. |
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Post by MartinT on Sept 27, 2017 7:03:52 GMT
Five Ruckert Lieder, Boulez, Minton, LSO. Simply wonderful. As for the 3rd, it really has to be Haitink. His performances are epic. |
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 27, 2017 13:48:32 GMT
I always think the best starting point is the 5 th and von Karajan did quite a good job on it in my opinion...which of course is not necessarily going to be your opinion. Right, listened to this from start to finish now! First thing to say is that the performance sounds superb to me - VK gets the kind of performance from the Berlin Phil that I've never heard from Rattle - sorry, just had to say that again ... Yes, it's polished and precise as you would expect but also incredibly taut and tense from the off, with no lack of atmosphere at all for me. You really get a sense of unwavering commitment from the musicians. As for the music, well the Sehr Langsam is just so sublime that everything else in the symphony feels like a rather poor relative. I did enjoy the first movement but 2 & 3 I find more difficult to enjoy. It's like I'm searching for some musical motifs and themes to cling on to but don't find them - I find the narrative, or lack of it, too meandering ... I will try the Barbirolli next! |
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 27, 2017 14:20:39 GMT
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 27, 2017 14:23:29 GMT
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Post by Slinger on Sept 27, 2017 17:00:00 GMT
I always think the best starting point is the 5 th and von Karajan did quite a good job on it in my opinion...which of course is not necessarily going to be your opinion. Right, listened to this from start to finish now! First thing to say is that the performance sounds superb to me - VK gets the kind of performance from the Berlin Phil that I've never heard from Rattle - sorry, just had to say that again ... Yes, it's polished and precise as you would expect but also incredibly taut and tense from the off, with no lack of atmosphere at all for me. You really get a sense of unwavering commitment from the musicians. As for the music, well the Sehr Langsam is just so sublime that everything else in the symphony feels like a rather poor relative. I did enjoy the first movement but 2 & 3 I find more difficult to enjoy. It's like I'm searching for some musical motifs and themes to cling on to but don't find them - I find the narrative, or lack of it, too meandering ... I will try the Barbirolli next! The adagietto/fourth movement is probably the main reason I recommend this as a jumping on point. If the listener makes it that far then he or she is suitably rewarded. I think it's probably Mahler's most " beautiful" piece of music, for want of a better word and one tends to forget that this is (just) 20th century classical music. Visconti used it (and parts of the third) in his film Death In Venice to great effect. Hopefully it's given you a slightly different, even improved, view of Mahler and his compositional skills. He does need to be played well, as you have discovered. |
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 29, 2017 16:58:38 GMT
Thanks Paul - Barbirolli is very different to VK in the 5th and I highly recommend a listen.
The opening tempo is taken much slower than VK and on first listening is initially somewhat off putting as the clarity of theme takes longer to cut through, but actually it quickly establishes a sense of nobility and dignity. Six minutes in you have a quite wonderful sense of drama. It’s also darker and more earthy than VK, the slower tempo actually helps draw you into a greater sense of depth.
It may or not be significant that this was recorded a year before Sir John’s death but it is certainly a great tribute to his abilities.
The second movement is now starting to grow on me, I’m finding to more to enjoy in it and it certainly manages to maintain the dramatic tension of the first.
I find the orchestra outstanding, particularly the horns / brass. I also just love the way that Mahler moves from a minor to major key in almost same phrase.
The third for me still doesn’t have the depth of the first & second movement or the incandescent beauty of the fourth. It feels like the work is coming up for fresh air; a quick breather.
I'd have to listen again to be sure but my gut feeling is that VK’s reading of the fourth is probably preferable for me - his rendition of its emotional depth is more intense whereas Sir John’s is less ‘heart on sleeve’, more understated.
The Rondo of the fifth feels somewhat inconsequential as a whole on both recordings and not entirely satisfactory as an ending to the work.
I just don’t get the celebratory tone and trifling pleasantries given the nature of the previous four movements.
I can imagine this recording as a whole sounding awesome on my vinyl system.
Maybe I’m just starting to get this Mahler thing …
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Post by MartinT on Sept 29, 2017 18:57:46 GMT
Have you tried my recommendations, Jules? Mahler gets under your skin and then stays there.
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 30, 2017 17:04:53 GMT
I'm going to move onto the 3rd next week Martin before listening to any more of the 5th, so will check out the Haitink ..
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