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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 14:33:20 GMT
But you can have build quality without the sound, like the d'Agostino amps I've heard on a couple of occasions. Going off the KSA 50 and Argagon 4004 I owned, I'd hoped they would have sounded stellar. I would be upset if there was ever any realistic prospect of me being able to afford them! On another note, I've just been looking at some system pics on another forum. Only my opinion, but in the locations many people are siting their systems, I wouldn't bother going very far up the hifi food chain because of the room compromises. There seem to be a lot of small spaces with speakers too close together and also perilously close to side walls. Is high end only really worth the effort if you have a decent sized space and no WAF restrictions?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2017 18:06:02 GMT
As to the OP, I think 'the high end' is a silly label. To non-hifi folks, it's what we used to call a hifi system. To many of us, it's the hi-fi magazine cliches built into a 19" rack mounted box. To others of us, it's the apogee of musical reproduction. To some members of those sub-sets of people, it's those things with generous sprinklings of bling. It's all relative, man! American Expensive Gear is what people looked upon as High End mainly [Or did years ago]. Only things is a lot seem to switch on the 'my toys are bigger & more expensive than yours' mode. Been there done such Gear. Never impressed me, in fact i always thought the Middle ground British stuff to sound more pleasing. Hand up though i used to be the same when i was buying British gear in the Early 80's looking down on people with Japanese Equipment, However these days it's the reverse with me, Vintage Japanese Equipment over British stuff. However io do & have always had a fettish for Vintage European gear.. But mostly, i think its pretty much that i cannot be arsed any more. Looking at the used prices of that old American 'High End' gear from the 80's, The prices are not that bad in which most people could afford these days. But i think attitude to Hi-Fi Equipment has changed drastically these days.
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Post by MartinT on Feb 4, 2017 21:35:08 GMT
in the locations many people are siting their systems, I wouldn't bother going very far up the hifi food chain I didn't know how compromised my system was until I put the same system into a better room.
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Post by Chris on Feb 5, 2017 8:30:45 GMT
That's a great point from singularity and I agree totally. It'd just be stupid to put certain items in your average room.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 9:21:42 GMT
It's kinda been what's stopped me going further in the past. Big amps and speakers just can't perform anything like their best in a 15 x12 room. I now have a big (ish) room but it's effectively a resonant concrete shell that sounds crap. I live in hope of having an appropriate room one day and exploring the high end properly. As Andr'e rightly points out, much of the older high end kit is affordable today.
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Post by ant on Feb 5, 2017 10:06:32 GMT
The room shouldnt stop you from buying what you want to buy and larger doesnt automatically equal better. When i designed the crossovers for my speakers I did a relatively simple test. I burned a frequency sweep to cd and used a simple spectrum analyser app on my phone. Pink noise would have been better but the sweep sufficed for the purposes of the test. I wanted to see where room modes were, and tweak the crossover component values.
When i ran the sweep it showed that the room was fairly dead, no large modes that would bugger around with the response very much. Based on the result I was then able to tweak the values of the crossover
The thing is, the app and sweep would also show where to start to tweak the room. Say you have a mode you want to tame, you could run the sweep as many times as you need to, identify the frequency which will not be what you think it is and say hang a picture or rug or whatever, move some furniture around ect ect until youre happy. There is no reason to arbitrarily sat that big room good small room bad. It doesnt work like that, thats rubbish. It is the interactions within a room that are good or bad.
The app by the way is free on the play store and is called spectrum analyser. Give it a look. Its not going to be perfectly accurate but that's not the point. The point is to show you where to look
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 10:15:25 GMT
It's kinda been what's stopped me going further in the past. Big amps and speakers just can't perform anything like their best in a 15 x12 room. I now have a big (ish) room but it's effectively a resonant concrete shell that sounds crap. I live in hope of having an appropriate room one day and exploring the high end properly. I have a smaller man cave than that [9' x 9'] the amp i use is 16 Watt, I can't even turn it up to 9 o'Clock' without being too loud for the room im in..
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Post by MartinT on Feb 5, 2017 12:20:17 GMT
It's more about matching the power to the room and not overloading it. There is a good spectrum analyser app for Windows Phone, too.
However, if you want real accuracy use 1/3 octave pink noise (I use the Sheffield Lab test CD) and a digital SPL meter, then plot it into Excel using a logarithmic frequency scale. It's a good learning exercise and helps to understand the room/speaker interaction.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 15:03:23 GMT
Always done low power amps/ High Efficiency speakers. Low Mass arms/High Compliant carts... These two rules are what ive always followed. oh & Flat Earth/Over my dead body
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Post by ant on Feb 5, 2017 16:54:55 GMT
Its definitely a good idea to do, even if youre happy with what you have. As Martin says its a learing experience and will help folks understand what is actually happening in room. Its so much easier when represented visually to see what is going on. It gives a starting point. Plenty of people may have a nagging issue with their system they can quite put their finger on and it might just be a case of shifting something or shutting a curtain, rather than an intrinsic problen with a system wether that system is high end esoterica of a midi system
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