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Post by pinkie on Jul 9, 2014 7:24:21 GMT
"the market decides these things"  ??
You have of course portrayed the market as all right wingers do , in the abstract as an entity similar to a force of nature . The market decides ? how does that happen .
The process was described my messrs Miller and Modigliani among others.
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Post by pinkie on Jul 9, 2014 7:33:18 GMT
it as been suggested the price paid is an individuals choice . I would retort with 2 things .
No firm bar 1 , provides you with sufficient information for anybody to make an informed choice upon the price structure . If the P10 was confirmed as costing a couple of hundred quid to make , I doubt anyone would buy it .
Secondly Additionally , it is not actually an individuals choice . Individuals make choices within a socio-economic framework not of their making . The existence of £10,00 mains conditioners and £100,000 amplifiers reflects dysfunctional distribution of wealth . I would rather live in a world were Ferrari went bankrupt and reasonably priced car manufacturers thrived cause fewer people had less and more people had more . Economies function better for more people is wealth is better distributed .
What did your house cost to build? What would it cost to rebuild if it burned down? What has that got to do with the price you would sell it for? 
Richard may arrive at his pricing by a "cost plus" approach (the introductory paragraph on pricing models). He is entitled to do that, and I wish him success with it. But in reality, his price is probably also determined by his marketing choices and the perceived value of the product regardless of the honourable principles he seeks to apply (Why mark-up on materials, why not "add labour at fixed hourly rate?). In reality the market has set his price. If it were underpriced in the market he would be in the postion of Morgan Cars when John Harvey-Jones advised them to put up their prices (4 year waiting list for product).
There is a special sort of arrogance in the socialist model that a group of well-meaning planners should decide how much wealth each of us get to keep and how it is produced. History also suggests that there is spectacular incompetence and corruption to accompany it (acknowledging capitalism is not without the odd wart). Essentially it is Darwinian evolution. You can pray for the alternative, but the environmental evidence argues against you 
(Further apologies for the thread drift - please feel free to play with the new tools in your forum toybox, and cut us out to a thread of our own. 'Fraid it is beyond me to DIY) 
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 9, 2014 7:34:53 GMT
O yes. Academic economics. What a load of crap that is. Unusually brief for you pinky.
Edit.Your second post arrived post my response.
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Post by welder on Jul 9, 2014 8:16:07 GMT
I’ve used a balanced mains transformer for a while now; even brought my Airlink transformer with me when I moved. Since then a local company specialising in industrial power supplies built me another that steps up the voltage to 240 V (the nominal voltage here is 220 Volts.
Now I realise that in a domestic audio setup a single spur mains supply and a balanced transformer really shouldn’t make an audible difference, but I believe I can hear a small improvement and although the mains here is relatively quiet the noise reduction is measurable.
I’ll let the amp and Dac builders argue over why such setups can, or can’t, give an audible improvement but for a relatively small outlay it’s one of those tweaks worth trying out imo.
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 9, 2014 8:32:38 GMT
it as been suggested the price paid is an individuals choice . I would retort with 2 things .
No firm bar 1 , provides you with sufficient information for anybody to make an informed choice upon the price structure . If the P10 was confirmed as costing a couple of hundred quid to make , I doubt anyone would buy it .
Secondly Additionally , it is not actually an individuals choice . Individuals make choices within a socio-economic framework not of their making . The existence of £10,00 mains conditioners and £100,000 amplifiers reflects dysfunctional distribution of wealth . I would rather live in a world were Ferrari went bankrupt and reasonably priced car manufacturers thrived cause fewer people had less and more people had more . Economies function better for more people is wealth is better distributed .
What did your house cost to build? What would it cost to rebuild if it burned down? What has that got to do with the price you would sell it for?
Richard may arrive at his pricing by a "cost plus" approach (the introductory paragraph on pricing models). He is entitled to do that, and I wish him success with it. But in reality, his price is probably also determined by his marketing choices and the perceived value of the product regardless of the honourable principles he seeks to apply (Why mark-up on materials, why not "add labour at fixed hourly rate?). In reality the market has set his price. If it were underpriced in the market he would be in the postion of Morgan Cars when John Harvey-Jones advised them to put up their prices (4 year waiting list for product).
There is a special sort of arrogance in the socialist model that a group of well-meaning planners should decide how much wealth each of us get to keep and how it is produced. History also suggests that there is spectacular incompetence and corruption to accompany it (acknowledging capitalism is not without the odd wart). Essentially it is Darwinian evolution. You can pray for the alternative, but the environmental evidence argues against you
(Further apologies for the thread drift - please feel free to play with the new tools in your forum toybox, and cut us out to a thread of our own. 'Fraid it is beyond me to DIY)
You thinking appears to be -unusually - all other the place .
What as my house price got to do with any point I made ?
And indeed your second paragraph . You are once again mistaking what is for must be .
It also takes a special kind of arrogance to assume I am a reconstructed seventies lefty without any actual evidence . And your comment on Darwinian evolution is to be frank bollocks .
Humans beings are simultaneously created by a world that they didn't make and make it again through their actions , this is an exceptionally complex process currently little understand , suffice to say comments like survival of the fittest , acting in your self interest to explain how societies reproduce themselves are deterministic bullshit .
All people act within a social structure outside of which they cannot act . This structure is both implied and explicit [ rules of conversation are just one of the tacit structural elements we implicitly know ] Acting within this structure gives us the appearance of free will .
The structure is also overt - Try walking down the high street with your penis out . Once apprehended , pretend you do not know you did anything wrong and keep doing it , before long you will become incapacitated pursuant of the 2005 Mental Capacity Act .
I am all for free will , just tinkering with the social , normative and legal structure that confines free will . in terms of economics - these include -
1] john lewis /armed services pay structures. 2] tax systems that focus on the collective good - for instance - imposing the cost of redundancy upon profitable companies for two years .
That will do for now .
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 9, 2014 9:36:13 GMT
You really are an arrogant man who even presumes to tell me how my products are costed. Cost plus includes provision for labour. At least three times per year I put a block on the shop (holiday settings) when the delivery time becomes unacceptable for me. I set my prices not the market, and MY conscience in not being involved in any form of rip-off is one of the main dictats. Perhaps the company you shill for should take the same approach as he seems to have loads of time to twiddle his fingers. I am told many many times by idiots that my attitude to this market in exposing its crooks and slurpers is losing me sales - well all well and good because they are sales I don't want if it is those people providing them. |
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 9, 2014 9:47:45 GMT
Given that A80's just trounced £18 k of naim amplification [ see pfm or h/s ] it would seem that the market says you should be charging 20k for a set doc . 
as has just been graphically pointed out to you pinky , your classical economics dogma as no bearing on reality , it is old news and is the reason why Manchester University economics students recently protested that the economics degree course wasn't fit for purpose . |
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 9, 2014 10:56:03 GMT
Martin - I have one being photographed and assessed by Gromit (Richard Joyce) at the moment, so I can get that sent on to you instead of back to me if you wish. Let me have your address and phone number by PM or email if you want to try.
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Post by MartinT on Jul 9, 2014 11:03:01 GMT
You really are an arrogant man who even presumes to tell me how my products are costed. You have each needled the other now, so I'm calling it fair and square. However, this is close to being unacceptable so please will you tone it down and keep to the points being discussed? |
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 9, 2014 11:08:52 GMT
Given that A80's just trounced £18 k of naim amplification [ see pfm or h/s ] it would seem that the market says you should be charging 20k for a set doc .
as has just been graphically pointed out to you pinky , your classical economics dogma as no bearing on reality , it is old news and is the reason why Manchester University economics students recently protested that the economics degree course wasn't fit for purpose . Well we just had a massive crash back in 2008 that we are only now coming out of, and only because loads of sticking plasters were put all over the problem instead of actually finding a cure are we getting this small respite. The ball has been kicked into the long grass for our children and their children to solve, but they will probably just kick it again until it gets lost - then we are lost - chaos. All this means is that it will happen again, and continue to do so. And each time it does ordinary people will have to pay for it. Keynesian economics is a busted flush. It relies on brainwashing of the people into believing that bits of paper have value and the whole world can live in a state of debt. |
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Post by pinkie on Jul 9, 2014 11:15:22 GMT
You really are an arrogant man who even presumes to tell me how my products are costed. Cost plus includes provision for labour. At least three times per year I put a block on the shop (holiday settings) when the delivery time becomes unacceptable for me. I set my prices not the market, and MY conscience in not being involved in any form of rip-off is one of the main dictats. Perhaps the company you shill for should take the same approach as he seems to have loads of time to twiddle his fingers. I am told many many times by idiots that my attitude to this market in exposing its crooks and slurpers is losing me sales - well all well and good because they are sales I don't want if it is those people providing them. Language Timothy! You're breaking your own rules Richard.  I didn't presume to tell you how your products are costed, nor how they should be. I responded to DQ's comment that your's were the only products with transparant pricing. And I expressed the hope that it worked for you. There is nothing crooked about allowing a price to be set by demand (as DQ will when he sells his house - and you too for that matter Richard). Are you seriously telling me that your products would sell more if they were priced higher? Vous plaisantez matey. That phenomena exists (just for DQ's sake, I'll explain, cos I know he loves a bit more very basic economics). I used to know it as the "Irish exception", but I think the correct term is Giffen goods. A normal demand curve slopes from left to right (like a ski slope with the top of the mountain on the left, by the axis) As the price is lowered, demand increases. With Giffen goods there comes a point where that rule reverses and as prices fall so does demand. There are 2 main varieties - the luxury goods market (the Naim amplifier to some degree, although Rolex and Rolls Royce cars are usually quoted). The more the price is increased, the more desirable they become (and if the price is reduced too far, they are percieved as inferior, or no longer desirable as they lose their exclusivity) The other extreme was potatoes in 19th century Ireland. It was the staple food, and at the extremes of poverty all that Irish peasants could afford as food. As supply improved, and prices fell, a peasant could buy enough potatos for less money to have a bit of money left over to buy luxuries like cabbage. Hence "Irish exception" for Giffen goods. I noted that - however you set your prices, the fact that you do not operate an elitist "consumer merit" system for eligibility to buy your products, and are not suffering with an inability to meet demand, means you have set your price at its market price. You have no waiting lists - indeed a bit of the "time on your hands" aspect you accused Arthur of (although he is too busy running his business to spend time on forums), and therefore your pricing would appear to be at the point where available demand meets your ability to supply. Or if indeed you do have time on your hands, you are maybe a tad overpriced. Of course, demand is not influenced solely by price. The marketing mix will influence demand (3, 4, 5 P's?? - however many you fancy). But distribution channels and retail facilities add value which is why they are priced, and consumers go to shops. They are not corrupt and wicked because they cost more than the consumer working out for themselves exactly what they want blind, and sourcing it direct from the manufacturer. Indeed, there is a certain arrogance in choosing a marketing policy that demands the consumer finds out about the manufacturer for himself. I have never criticised your choice to take a direct marketing route - only your presumption that because you choose it everyone else should too. Some of us like shops, and service (I was at The Listening rooms last night - picking up the Quads, and treated to a first class retail experience). We also appreciate the story of the product being bought to us rather than being expected to find it for ourselves. Having had a quick peek at their website, I suspect that Power Inspired have discovered that an effective marketing and distribution policy has increased their sales too - and by sufficient to pay the additional costs. You might argue that consumers are ripped off by having to pay more for the same item because of the baggage of marketing and distribution. (Actually, Richard, since this is you, we can be fairly sure that you WILL argue that point, ad-nauseum, with venom and bile, disregarding any comments to the contrary, regardless of their merit) However, I would argue that all the new customers who have bought it as a result of the new marketing strategy, were being ripped off before, because they were being kept in the dark about a product they wanted and liked enough to spend money on , but evidently didnt know about. Sales is usually seen as "conning people into buying" or "conning them to pay too much". But most people working in sales realise it is about identifying a need, and helping to fulfill it. Or put another way "Share the love"  |
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 9, 2014 11:37:12 GMT
More arrogance, I think we have an indication or real personality here. You are still telling me about my company and how I should run it. It must be part of the accountancy course. To put it bluntly accountants are at the root of the problems inflicting the world, they claim they are just the bean counters, far from it as by holding the purse strings they more often than not gain control of the companies. Pinky you operate in a world of delusion that is only being kept afloat by the number of people who have fallen for the bullshit. You are an accountant so everything you say is with a superior (I am trained in it) attitude, the problem is you have been trained largely in bullshit. The same as Solicitors if they suddenly didn't exist then half the courts would close because of lack of work, so with accountants, you are self serving bunch or egotists and bullshitters - full stop, who only exist as parasites feeding off people trying to make living.
If you all ceased to exist then a repeat of 2008 would be highly unlikely as it is people like you who created it.
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 9, 2014 11:40:35 GMT
bloody hell , what have I done . |
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 9, 2014 11:42:59 GMT
Exposed the need for some reality checking.
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Post by DaveC on Jul 9, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
The AG1500 puts hash right back into the mains. I bought one, it made everything worse, I measured it and put it on eBay the same day...............  Dave |
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 9, 2014 11:54:14 GMT
Exposed the need for some reality checking. That's my raison detre , I meant you lumping me in with accountants |
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Post by danielquinn on Jul 9, 2014 11:56:46 GMT
The AG1500 puts hash right back into the mains. I bought one, it made everything worse, I measured it and put it on eBay the same day............... Dave Trust you advertised it as being not fit for purpose and not working
This is the first negative [ ie made things worse ] report I have read .
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Post by MartinT on Jul 9, 2014 12:07:18 GMT
The AG1500 puts hash right back into the mains. I bought one, it made everything worse Switching noise? |
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Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Jul 9, 2014 12:25:45 GMT
The AG1500 puts hash right back into the mains. I bought one, it made everything worse, I measured it and put it on eBay the same day............... Dave Putting hash right back into the mains indicates you measured on the input side. |
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Post by pinkie on Jul 9, 2014 12:29:40 GMT
More arrogance, I think we have an indication or real personality here. You are still telling me about my company and how I should run it. It must be part of the accountancy course. To put it bluntly accountants are at the root of the problems inflicting the world, they claim they are just the bean counters, far from it as by holding the purse strings they more often than not gain control of the companies. Pinky you operate in a world of delusion that is only being kept afloat by the number of people who have fallen for the bullshit. You are an accountant so everything you say is with a superior (I am trained in it) attitude, the problem is you have been trained largely in bullshit. The same as Solicitors if they suddenly didn't exist then half the courts would close because of lack of work, so with accountants, you are self serving bunch or egotists and bullshitters - full stop, who only exist as parasites feeding off people trying to make living. If you all ceased to exist then a repeat of 2008 would be highly unlikely as it is people like you who created it. I think that was a bit rude. Are you trying for an "ad-hominum" olympic record or something? I know it was erroneous. At no stage have I sought to advise you how to run your business. Like DQ I charge for that  I commented on pricing policy and market supply and demand as they are understood generically, and noting how Power Inspired appeared to have benefitted their business, and their customers, by adopting a more effective marketing strategy than a sub-forum on HFS. That this was effective has not caused me to fall off my chair in astonishment. |
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