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Post by mattspl on Dec 22, 2019 11:41:10 GMT
As some members know, I have been a big advocate of power regenerators for creating nice clean mains power with low output impedance and 'stiffness'. The PS Audio P10 has been in my system for over a decade. Just a couple of days ago, I took it one step further by buying a smaller P3 and moving all my source components from the P10 to it, keeping power for the constant load source components separate from power for the varying load power amp. It has been a great success, improving sound quality in virtually all parameters. The feeling of endless power reserves comes partially from the ability of regenerators to present a lower output impedance than the mains itself, together with reserves that keep the power 'stiff' (unyielding to voltage drops during high demand). Deep bass transients, drum stick work and the general 'snap' of all music really benefits from this kind of power treatment. It's something that filters alone cannot achieve. Hi Martin, It sounds like an impressive upgrade. Is the P3 the smallest regenerator PS Audio do? Cheers Matt
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Post by MartinT on Dec 22, 2019 12:39:59 GMT
Yes, Mat, the Stellar P3, to give it its full name, is the smallest in the PS Audio range but it could potentially power an entire system or, as I use it, power all the source components. Being a new design, it also features lower noise and tighter regulation than my older P10.
When I was running the whole system from the P10 it only idled at 100W and rarely went above 200W even at huge volumes. So my issue was never overloading it, it's more about running the system from different zones of clean power.
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Post by MartinT on May 16, 2023 8:45:49 GMT
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Post by mattspl on Feb 8, 2024 13:07:48 GMT
Looks good Martin.
What are peoples opinions on cheap, computer grade pure sine wave ups to use with Hifi? Worth it, or could it harm sound quality?
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Post by MartinT on Feb 8, 2024 13:21:15 GMT
What are peoples opinions on cheap, computer grade pure sine wave ups to use with Hifi? Worth it, or could it harm sound quality? I used to say 'absolutely not' to computer grade UPS as some of them simply generate a squarewave - after all, the design criteria is to keep the equipment running, not worry about the quality of the waveform. Nowadays, as you say, some are sinewave output. However, many (like my APC UPS) will only cut over to battery power on power loss, otherwise the mains power is just passed through. These would be of no use either. If the sinewave is truly synthesised, you would need to read the specs and check how that sinewave is created and whether low distortion is even specified. Unless you're absolutely sure, you may find it an expensive dead end. Try before you buy? PS Audio know what they're doing with regenerators. They measure distortion in and out and can select between sinewave and multiwave. There is even power factor correction to generate the lowest distortion in your own environment. These latest models are also very quiet and create a lower output impedance than your wall power, meaning they respond instantaneously to power demand from a power amp. There is good reason that dynamics rank highly in my system. Yes, I do know they are expensive and not everyone can access their goodness. If you do come across a lower cost regenerator / UPS then please let everyone know as there is nothing quite like the stability, consistency, inky blackness and deep soundstage that clean regenerated power brings.
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Post by mattspl on Feb 8, 2024 14:28:30 GMT
This particular PowerInspired unit specifies <3% THD sine wave output. It will be silent too as the fan only operates when in UPS mode on battery. www.powerinspired.com/brochures/br-ups-vis-g.pdfI use an older PowerInspired AG500 on my source gear and broadband, but was considering trying 2 other units(1 per active speaker).
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Post by MartinT on Feb 12, 2024 11:13:10 GMT
Just a couple of days ago, I took it one step further by buying a smaller P3 and moving all my source components from the P10 to it, keeping power for the constant load source components separate from power for the varying load power amp. It has been a great success, improving sound quality in virtually all parameters. ...and finally, I have replaced my 12 year old P10 with a P12. The same improved performance has ensued, the P12 using the same DSD-derived sinewave synthesiser as the P3 uses. Just as we have found that DACs can vary tremendously in performance, it would seem that generating a new mains power waveform from a reference synthesised 'perfect' sinewave has a critical effect on the sound quality of all components that it powers. The other area that likely has a significant effect on the resulting sound quality of the components it powers is the very low output impedance of <0.008Ω, which is much lower than the typical household power socket can manage and three times better than the P10. As well as the P12 being remarkably flexible in its settings, and being as solidly built as its predecessor, it manages to output a maximum 1200VA (the same as the P10) in a chassis half the size, and with very little heat. That's an achievement in itself and I guess quite a lot of optimisation of the tracking amplifier that 'repairs' the mains waveform on the fly has occurred between generations. However they've done it, I doff my cap to the company that brought mains power regeneration to the world of hi-fi and still leads the field. The P3 and P12 allow my system to resolve to a level I've not heard before, and make the bass tighter and dynamics slam like never before.
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Post by MartinT on Feb 17, 2024 11:41:41 GMT
It's interesting to look at power consumption. The P12 is mainly providing power to the power amp, but it also powers the early part of the digital chain: the router, etherREGEN and clock via JS-2 and QP-2 power supplies. The P12 idles at 57W with no music playing, which is 5% load - very low.
Keeping an eye on the power meter, playing music at normal volume varies between barely moving and around 150W, depending on the music and how much bass there is. The most I have seen it register is with Takla Makan by Yello, with lots of serious air movements. Even then, it rarely goes above 200W and never touches 300W, or 25% loading. This suggests I chose the correct model in the P12 and stretching to the P15 would have been wasteful.
It also suggests that the system is efficient even adding in what the P3 consumes. Even assuming the P12 were to hit 300W, less the idle power of 57W gives 243W or 121Wpc, well inside the Belles' continuous power output of 200Wpc.
Everything seems sized correctly.
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