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Post by palace on Aug 26, 2024 11:22:30 GMT
MartinT have you had time to listen to the weighted stand.
Something thing else I noticed but failed to mention.
I have said before as I progressed via Auva 50's & 70's & now the Auva 100's, I guess because of the reduction in haze or the at one time popular description of "the removal of veils" the music/sound has became slower or more properly relaxed & even sounding, of course music whether classical or pop get's exciting where appropriate. It seems Salome is now naked as is the music laid out before me.
listening to a 1974 vinyl LP Red Crystal Fantasies by a group called RUBY (it has developed a cult following) a friend who gave me the LP was a member, they broke up when their backer put his £££ elsewhere, the dynamics have improved, previously some tracks could sound a little thin, not now the last track on Side A called Strangelove has a Vibraphone section, "vibra" is order of the day the natural resonance is uncanny.
listening to "Raising Venus" from the Album Convergence with Malia with Boris Blank (Yello producer) via YouTube what incredible bass, my chair was vibrating with the airborne bass nothing under my bare feet, so hopefully the Auva 100's stop conducted vibration reaching the downstair neighbours. Guitars/electronics & voice are crystal clear & pin sharp, Malia projecting her voice (well the engineer Boris Blank) is both sad, sultry & ethereal. I was playing Flag (Yello CD) earlier I can hear that it sound so like a Yello track, but with the Malia her voice is further forward a lovely deep bass on this track and a big soundstage, from the backing vocals a brilliant track that you can be immerse yourself in.
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Post by MartinT on Aug 26, 2024 15:12:04 GMT
MartinT have you had time to listen to the weighted stand. It certainly hasn't done any harm, and I think the whole system has moved forward so it's hard to apportion the uplift. However, I'm pleased. |
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Post by palace on Aug 26, 2024 15:25:30 GMT
MartinT have you had time to listen to the weighted stand. It certainly hasn't done any harm, and I think the whole system has moved forward so it's hard to apportion the uplift. However, I'm pleased. MartinT thank you I must work out a way to add mass where appropriate. |
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Post by MartinT on Aug 26, 2024 15:39:24 GMT
Schramm weights are inexpensive, don't look terrible and you can use them on almost everything.  |
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Post by palace on Aug 26, 2024 16:05:46 GMT
Schramm weights are inexpensive, don't look terrible and you can use them on almost everything. You have sold me. |
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Post by palace on Aug 27, 2024 11:17:17 GMT
Schramm weights are inexpensive, don't look terrible and you can use them on almost everything. MartinT I tried 2 x 4.5 Kg sand filled dumbbells my Daughter in Law left behind when she & my son bought their own place. I put one on each Rupert stand. Sat down again just now to listen to the Sunday BBC Prom that I had been listening to, unexpectedly some of the magic was gone, I removed the dumbbells & just like magic the wonderful balance was restored. Since the 4.5Kg is inconsequential, I can only think the dumbbell blocked or had some strange interaction with the near perfect rear output return of the dipole Quads. However does not preclude extra mass on other parts of the system... The Sharpie marks on the floor obviously are to reposition speakers exactly that extra 1/4" was taken up before playing.   |
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Post by palace on Sept 2, 2024 12:15:33 GMT
After some more use on the Auva 100's under the OTA Quad 57's on Rupert stands the sound leaving the Quads is still improving the speakers themselves disappeared ages ago.
listening again to the 1974 vinyl LP Red Crystal Fantasies by RUBY that a friend gave me the LP was a member of Ruby, the dynamics have improved even more , previously some tracks that I described could sound a little thin, are not now, particularly the last track on Side A called "Strangelove" it now has so much more "presence" & the vibraphone so resonant.
A YouTube rendition of Villa Lobos Bachianas Brasileiras sung by the stunning both visually & the aurelly aspects of Anna Moffo her voice is even more sensual & clear than ever, I was mesmerised.
Now listening to the Barber Adagio oh so emotional & sad...
Looking forward to adding some more Auva EQ's to improve the sound even more.
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Post by palace on Sept 29, 2024 15:38:11 GMT
Just a quick up date on the Batpure super tweeters in the mouths of piezo tweeter cones (Jimmy Hughes version) on my OTA Quad 57 speakers my Fynne Audio Super Trax super tweeterI inspired "diverter" have now replaced the 35mm disc with a 44mm brass disc in front of the "diverter" thus dissipating their output, improving the impact of the super tweeter I first made discs out of aluminium foil trying several sizes. I have also put a 35mm poly disc on the front to damp the brass I think it looks quite good with a brass rim. I still have the super tweeter benefits like cleaner bass, spaciousness etc. but prevent the Batpure from beaming.   |
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Post by paulrbarker on Oct 4, 2024 15:41:45 GMT
Thanks Pinkie, most informative.
My Sister lives just within sight of the Pyrenees, at Lahitte - Toupiere, but I have not been there for ages.
But if I do.  Phil, you can come listen to my 57’s don't forget you’re taste in records. I wont be able to lug them to a meet up. Neither my valve amps. But I have driving them my Single ended EL38 about 3.6 watts plays the ‘57’s beautifully. The top floor is my go to for best sound. The rom floor is littered with projects begun and not finished and some finished but not moved from where they stood. But thre is always room for you Phil. And if anyone in range wants to join we can all carry chokes oil caps transformers and stuff aside and sit on a 3 seater sofa. Darren had 63’s they are pretty good, but he always had a fault on one channel. We both heard 57’s together in Leeds. We both preferred 57’s. At last I bought some myself. Prefer 57’s. OTOH you are also an 833 lover. The first time both Darren and myself heard 833’s it was on Darren’s 63’s. We got music to the 833’s from whatever SE amp Darren was using at the time. Probably his British made 4300a which valves he had to sell to pay his share in a house together with his new partner, at the same time he sold all his 4212’s via Nick. The point is that the 63’s playing the drum solo Moby Dick Led Zep II. MAN the drum kit was in the room. Only me and Darren were there that day. Nobody knows how good that was. Well it was glorious. |
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Post by palace on Oct 4, 2024 19:54:45 GMT
Thanks Pinkie, most informative.
My Sister lives just within sight of the Pyrenees, at Lahitte - Toupiere, but I have not been there for ages.
But if I do. Phil, you can come listen to my 57’s don't forget you’re taste in records. I wont be able to lug them to a meet up. Neither my valve amps. But I have driving them my Single ended EL38 about 3.6 watts plays the ‘57’s beautifully. The top floor is my go to for best sound. The rom floor is littered with projects begun and not finished and some finished but not moved from where they stood. But thre is always room for you Phil. And if anyone in range wants to join we can all carry chokes oil caps transformers and stuff aside and sit on a 3 seater sofa. Darren had 63’s they are pretty good, but he always had a fault on one channel. We both heard 57’s together in Leeds. We both preferred 57’s. At last I bought some myself. Prefer 57’s. OTOH you are also an 833 lover. The first time both Darren and myself heard 833’s it was on Darren’s 63’s. We got music to the 833’s from whatever SE amp Darren was using at the time. Probably his British made 4300a which valves he had to sell to pay his share in a house together with his new partner, at the same time he sold all his 4212’s via Nick. The point is that the 63’s playing the drum solo Moby Dick Led Zep II. MAN the drum kit was in the room. Only me and Darren were there that day. Nobody knows how good that was. Well it was glorious. Oh good another Quad 57 convert, paulbarker I read your piece on the plasma tweeter very interesting. Have you tried any super tweeter at all the are a benefit but don't forget Quad 57's reverse/invert phase hence my connecting the speaker lead to the Quad speaker terminals - black to + red & + red to - black the super tweeter + red to +red &- black to - black. Are the Quad 57's on stands they work best around 11"-12" off the floor. if you read my copious entries re Stack Audio Auva 50's, 70's & 100's they really work as bencat has found with his I went the whole hog trying Auva 50's, 70's ending up with the Auva 100's plus 4 x 4 sets of Auva EQ's under pre & power amps & 4 x 3 sets EQ's under DAC & LPSU etc. |
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Post by paulrbarker on Oct 5, 2024 5:12:18 GMT
Oh Im a long way behind, only had them a few months..
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Post by palace on Oct 5, 2024 12:43:08 GMT
Oh Im a long way behind, only had them a few months.. With patience & advice from this forum in particular; cleaning up your system by preventing & removing EMI/RFI whether mains born or via leads & chassis. Try super tweeters first when funds permit some how improves the bass, then get the Quad's up higher, their designer Peter Walker was prone to putting them on stools or chairs at shows etc. Above all ignore the majority of advice re their placement particularly they wont work in small rooms type of advice. As bencat & I have found placement is often room/system dependent both of us circumvent the norm's. |
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Post by paulrbarker on Oct 7, 2024 12:41:34 GMT
So mine are just on the 3 legs they come with. Do you change the angle thats built in to the 3 wooden legs? probably the same angle as the Briggs Open Bafle Wharfdale (I think the drivers were wharfdale but may be wrong) design. The Briggs dimensions OB had a tweeter pointing to the ceiling as a super tweeter of that era. There was a horizontal shelf for it.
When I was talking super tweeter plasma I meand it was needed on the Celestian A2. Because when I come down from upstars where the vinyl, Quads and SE valve amp are, the quality of sound in trebble is dire it has to be said. But that coule be anything. So the trebble on the 57’s is very delicate and clear on my SE valve amp and teh valve amp really suits the Quads. I think SE. Is very forgiving of the strange impedance changes on Quads. The overall sound driving them with SE valves is beautiful. But not to forget vinyl far exceeds my apple TV gadget which is probably quite a few generations behind. Also not forgetting after I bought the broadcast quality phono stage there was a dramatic improvement in sound, which changed the upstairs system to far exceed the downstairs system. Thats why I put that phono stage in my blog “if you see one of these for sale buy it.”
I used to afford pretty good MC cartridges. But on a pension those days are over.when you add up the costs for doing the best with turntables arms phono stages step up transformers and then look at digital media like Apple TV you realise how expensive vinyl is.
But actually you dont have to buy £2,000 MC Cartridges. You can exceed digital quality with affordable MM cartridges. Likewise arms phono stages and all the other costs of vinyl.
Ive sat at the feet of many people who would never give up vinyl. But in the end most of them turn digital.
On my budget though a 50 turntable its arm and whatever Goldring cartridge is in it. There is a capital E on its, the only clue. My vinyl is far better than my digital.
Staying with MM you arent thrown into the haands of the mc cartridge retippers. Whom I have tried two of and in both cases the tip only remained on my dvxx1l lasted adhered only a month.
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bencat
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Post by bencat on Oct 7, 2024 12:58:25 GMT
Paul ESL 57 were designed as a mono speaker and the legs and angle upwards was used to bounce the sound from the ceiling to give a better spread . This was very effective . However when used as a pair for stereo this becomes less effective and makes the sound too diffuse . In my view the ESL 57 need to be raised off the floor a minimum of 12 inches but for me at least 18 inches is better . They also need for them to be tilted forward so that they are parallel with the listener which cleans up the treble and improves the imaging as well . There are still stands about for them the Rupert Stands from AQuadthing Audio being one but there are also plans on line if you have the woodworking skills to construct a set . The second set of plans will push the speakers forward as well as raise them so would (if I had any sort of wood working skill) be my choice . esl.drakkapps.com/stands/www.quadesl.com/origRefs/eslstand.pdf |
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Post by palace on Oct 7, 2024 14:16:22 GMT
Paul ESL 57 were designed as a mono speaker and the legs and angle upwards was used to bounce the sound from the ceiling to give a better spread . This was very effective . However when used as a pair for stereo this becomes less effective and makes the sound too diffuse . In my view the ESL 57 need to be raised off the floor a minimum of 12 inches but for me at least 18 inches is better . They also need for them to be tilted forward so that they are parallel with the listener which cleans up the treble and improves the imaging as well . There are still stands about for them the Rupert Stands from AQuadthing Audio being one but there are also plans on line if you have the woodworking skills to construct a set . The second set of plans will push the speakers forward as well as raise them so would (if I had any sort of wood working skill) be my choice . esl.drakkapps.com/stands/www.quadesl.com/origRefs/eslstand.pdfbencat very good points, I would go higher if I could, I am 5' 9" heavy build short arms, as my Hydraulic Reference turntable is on a massive shelf behind the right Quad 57 on a Rupert stand 10" raised nearly another 2" on the Auva 100's plus another 7" for the super tweeter horn, the super tweeter it's self is above the centre panel but set back so the super tweeter folded foil diaphragm in line with the centre treble panel diaphragm to maintain accurate time alignment. I believe you use similar but higher stands to the posted illustrations, living in a private block of flat's on the second floor with carpeted communal hallways, for me even simple woodwork is next to impossible. Though I have the tools I no longer have access to any workshop facilities. A final point the Rupert stands I have each feature 2 through bolts in brass inserts that allow the angle of the speaker to lay back or be set parallel (upright) to the listener/listeners, the front edge of the speaker is secured to the stand with 3 x 4" screws fully tightened after setting the angle. In my room the Quad 57's best angle is half way between the 2 extremes. |
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bencat
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Quad ESL
Oct 7, 2024 20:20:47 GMT
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Post by bencat on Oct 7, 2024 20:20:47 GMT
Apologies John I have only seen Rupert Stand prototypes at AQuadthing Audio as Andrew wasvtryongbto retro engineer them after the original maker retired . So I was not aware they could alter the angle which is a great plus . I still feel a little more height is God but I am sure Andrew could make a pair to order .
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Post by palace on Oct 7, 2024 22:12:00 GMT
Apologies John I have only seen Rupert Stand prototypes at AQuadthing Audio as Andrew wasvtryongbto retro engineer them after the original maker retired . So I was not aware they could alter the angle which is a great plus . I still feel a little more height is God but I am sure Andrew could make a pair to order . bencat: No apology needed my fault for not making it clear I am using the early type oval with straight/squared off ends (I looked it up that shape is called an ellipse) I could not see on pictures the inserts for bolts on the latest flat rectangular base rendition of Rupert stands though they could be drilled & inserts fitted to take adjusting bolts 10mm if possible to spread the bolt face load on the wood of the speaker base. The bolts touch the speaker base about 1 1/2" 38.1mm from the rear edge. |
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Post by paulrbarker on Oct 7, 2024 23:47:13 GMT
I take all these lessons on board. But room acoustick’s are different here. The house is 6 bedroom detached. When I had people round to listen to my V1505 single ended amplifier from 1998 onwards. I was unaware it was the worst room I could have chosen. Roughly speaking same hight wedth and length. No music is played in there now. The main living room is about 20ft by 16ft not measured with a tape, just guestimate. High ceilings built in 1860’s with a bay window bushed out across the far corner to catch the sun for most amount of the day. Not at all designed for our modern audio. It sounds best if the speakers are in that bay. But they arent, they are either side of the TV.
The Quads are in the loft 3rd floor of the house. Also a mirror of the above mentioned lounge room, except shorter as a small 3rd floor bathroom.. occupies that space.
The acoustics in that room are made better by the roof line elements. The straight up walls are the height of a whole Barratt Box house the roof line terminates from modern house room hight to a flat out in the centre lines which are similar shape to the main living room but no longer in box shapes due to the angled roof lines.
Now let me take you back to the Briggs Dimensions 8” Graets (that speaker manufacturer may be misspelt or might not)’ they were the best sound I had in that room. But the amplifier in there was excessive one the lines of Stephie’s capacitorless resistorless power supplies and amplifier. I was using my 301 then a Mayware arm dvxx1l cart in good condition. I was in heaven. But if you dont realise a power supply and amplifier of that excess, is on a wooden breadboard spread all around the floor. But audio heaven sounds emerge.
So I plonked the 57’s where the OB’s were. The pakage of the room, make the sound oretty close to the OB’s. Something about the ceiling is assisting both designs of baffle shapes. Both share about the same lean back.. but the single driver OB’s were better soundstaged.. the 57’s are more spread and less acurate.
My best experience ref speakers were Bruce Edgar’s Edgar Horns at vsac. I spent half a day in his room listening to every word, he spoke the whole time, and I kept my ignorant trap shut. I was in the presence of a master.
I may try something on the lines above mentioned.
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Post by paulrbarker on Oct 8, 2024 0:13:26 GMT
Thinking about it the 63’s were straight up and down, taller and not angled back. That day in Wales only Darren and I heard, others invited but non came. When we connected 833’s to the output of Darren’s 4300a amplifiers (that is a British made WE300b) probably made by stc in England. That sound was up to the standard of Edgar Horn room, my OB experience with field coils. Most places I have heard speakers are nowhere near. With the exception of James’s OB’s with perspex baffles, but it is a marmight design doesnt suit all amps. It was best on Jonathon Nobbles 45 amp to my ear. Anyway must be something in orientating the 57’s straightt up and down like the 63’s. So I’ll also trial the rasing their position. when I first got into this mad extreme audio world a friend in USA called John (Jack as they say in USA) Ravenscroft who was also on Ned Carlson’s audio talk email group, where I first interacted with Stephie and many other greats from this world of extremes. John said the 57’s were best stacked one on top of another. I guess they were straight orientated. He just had one pair though, and I never asked him how they were orientated. Most Ive heard in UK were placed as the mono was designed. But they have all been a special experience. Took me a long time to own a pair, but always known they are unique and do something special.
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bencat
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Post by bencat on Oct 8, 2024 7:05:59 GMT
ESL 57 in my view are still the best Quad have produced despite the very clear limitations they have . Stacked does remove some of the issues for using single units but sadly it also adds problems of its own . If you are both mechanically and technically gifted then I am sure there are things can be done with stands , crossover and other things to make them much better but the size limits stacked units to the larger room .
Best sound from a pair of ESL 57 I ever heard was active version made by Tim De Paravacini of EAR . However even though he was a really clever and gifted maker these same speakers went on fire at the next show and burned the hotel room down . No surprise that all work on them after that was jettisoned .
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