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Post by ChrisB on Dec 28, 2016 7:09:14 GMT
Yes, it was Greg. No need to check, my memory of it is very clear. I don't expect there are many of those Celestion systems around though, or for that matter, many for sale.
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Post by tony on Dec 28, 2016 17:51:30 GMT
I swapped the 57s out last night plumbing the Frugels in. The 57s shortfalls are well known BUT for the reproduction of human voices I have yet to hear anything better. Some well recorded vocals just stop you in your tracks-Ella/John Martyn.
My good lady sat with the 57s for an hour listening to George Micheal sobbing her eyes out-not my cup of tea but losing him and PRINCE this year has been awful for her.
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Post by liffy99 on Nov 11, 2019 19:26:20 GMT
Golly, have three years passed since the last post ? Did the OP get 57s ? Good as they are / were I think the only reason to have a single pair now is that they are at the more ‘affordable’ end of stat territory at pushing two grand for a pair of OTA fettled ones. At new prices there is not much to compare - baby MLs perhaps ? Buying used though opens the field a bit. For the price of a pair of OTA 57s you could almost stretch to a used pair of 2805s which I feel do a better all round job. Since I last posted I finally grabbed a pair of 2905s which I love. The best imaging and believable soundstage I have yet had ( they do like a good metre or more from the wall behind mind). I still run a pair of bass units, not so much to add more bottom end, the 2905s gl low enough, but just to relieve them of a bit of hard work so they can play a bit louder (steep active crossover at 70hz). Ah well, back to Qobuz . . . .
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Post by jandl100 on Nov 12, 2019 13:05:40 GMT
A friend of mine is buying a pair of Quad 2912 (I think). He had a dealer dem pair in place when I visited a couple of weeks back. Amazingly solid build quality, especially compared to the old original Quad 63 which was embarassingly flimsy in comparison. Interestingly (for me) he also has a pair of standmount MBLs. Which he bought a few years ago after he'd seen me stay with my own MBLs for years. (We share musical taste, although until recently we lived a long way apart and hadn't visited). He had visited me a month ago to hear my MBL floorstanders, and liked them a lot. He certainly appreciated the extra bass from mine, but also thought they were a bit better all round despite sharing the 'radialstrahler' carbon fibre petal drivers. But he decided to go with the Quads rather than the much more expensive MBL 116f. Partly for cost (MBLs new are 3x as much), but he also likes the Quad sound. Me? I'd not heard the smaller MBLs before and was immediately struck by the "MBL sound" - palpable presence, 3D 'solid' imaging, much more of a 'being there' experience, freer and faster dynamically. But the smaller MBL do need a sub, which complicates matters, a lot. He has a big subwoofer, but it doesn't really convince musically. I'd have gone MBL in his place and forked out 3x as much (or bought used). The Quads are very good, the MBLs are sublime. YMMV.
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palace
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Post by palace on Dec 21, 2022 15:08:02 GMT
Has anyone tried a ONE THING AUDIO external widget for the 57s? Just wondering what they do sonically and if I was to go down the stacked route they would help give my amp an easier time. I have just seen this thread, yes I have a pair of the original OTA Widgets with fixed leads they did not work for me on my OTA Quad 57's with BatPure super tweeters with the Quads facing down the room only about 5 deg toe in & 5" from the side walls, at first Widgets seemed to make little difference, I took the boxes appart unsoldered the less than ideal captive leads & replaced them with 4 x 10" x 8 strips of Nordost Gold cable minus their outer sheath twisted then shrink tubed the new Widgets do not have fixed leads. In my room with my TNT UBYTE 2 crosslinked co-ax speaker cables etc in my room a bass hump had disappeared as did an unpleasant treble artifact. As I type listening to a DVD of the Mikado The sound stage is apparently halfway up the room and past the rear & side walls the speakers have disappeared no beaming at all though that was true before fitting the Widgets. This thread has the oft repeated "They don't do bass" Peter Walker said "With the right amplifier they will do bass" Rogue Audio in the states adjusted their 50 wpc Titan Atlas power amp to suit Quad ESL's at owners request. Rogue added KT120 valves/tubes the 100 wpc Titan Atlas Magnum. Over the years I had tried at least 15 amps some borrowed some owned both SS & valve from leak,Quad, Heathkit, Meridian & a massive hybrid Chinese B.O.M. quoted as stable down to 1 ohm. I bought my Atlas Magnum off a member of another forum after reading an article on 6Moons road trip 3 where a number of Amps were tested on Quad 57's by the likes of David Chesky the ASR Emitter being the best the 1/5th of the price Atlas Magnum a close second. I drove to the South Coast where I heard the Atlas Magnum on the owners big Maggies not so good a combination in a penthouse room big enough to have it's own weather system. Once home connecting up the Amp & the Quads was a marriage made in heaven in my 19' x 11' room it does not need the Widgets to help with the Quad 57's strange load unlike some SS amps another feature of the widget's. 3 years on at the same time as he KT120's died I noticed the output caps were looking manky Mark Manwaring White who had worked on modifying my Ming Da MC7R pre amp & Croft phono stage when I was unable to contact Mr Croft. Mark who is now a friend, fitted Audyn Reference caps & Mills resistors to maintain the 0.8hz cutoff frequency. Mark has access to a selection of IMF & TDL Transmission line speakers & normally listens to enormous 7' tall horns, at my place a couple of years ago his comment was "so no bass huh, I'd have these in a heartbeat" Since then valve changes to 6SN7 & 6SL7 in power and pre from 9 pin valves have improved things even more. Earlier I was listening to Bach from the BBC recorded last night, the Toccata & Fugue in D Minor was superb though I doubt the Quads could manage a 64' organ pipe. A few months ago my son who built his own Nuvista TNT preamp at college & big amp to drive his non Transmission Line with pro modified x over's TDL floor standers on stands. The night before his wedding my son stayed here bringing a deadmau5 While(1<2) CD his comment when I played it "I have listened to this system for 27 years, it has never sounded so good, don't touch it" so I just bought myself the deadmau5 While(1<2) CD.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 21, 2022 15:34:26 GMT
I'm giving the deadmau5 album a go. Pretty trippy and yes, it moves air.
I had a friend who bought the later Quad 989s and no, they do not do bass. Well, to be precise, they create a facsimile of bass sound but without the visceral aspect and they certainly don't go low. He tried everything and eventually swapped them for a pair of Kharmas that were much better all-rounders.
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palace
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Post by palace on Dec 21, 2022 16:39:30 GMT
I'm giving the deadmau5 album a go. Pretty trippy and yes, it moves air. I had a friend who bought the later Quad 989s and no, they do not do bass. Well, to be precise, they create a facsimile of bass sound but without the visceral aspect and they certainly don't go low. He tried everything and eventually swapped them for a pair of Kharmas that were much better all-rounders. I suspect my lounge shape & 40 years of experimentation in the same space + research & attention to minutiae has brought me to this place but there is a definite fast deep resonant wack from Tabla or Mridangam, Ginger Baker & real drum skins are felt in the chest not just the ears, double bass resonates or electric bass like Herbie Flowers combining the 2 on A walk on the Wild Side not so electrically/artificially produced drums . I used to be involved in car sound systems that went very low my own car 7 amp channels 17 speakers inc 2 x 12" subs the 10 channel parametric graphic equaliser had an adjustable car 80-100 hz bass hump filter a brickwall filter below 20 Hz, so I know how bass can feel, the quads are not that low or forceful, but still enjoyable. They are not 15" Tannoy GRF or Altec Lansing Voice of the Theater nor trying to be, though better/cleaner than any stacked Quads I have heard. To be honest I don't understand how but I am not alone Len Gregory used post 63's Quad ESL's they did not go as deep no one who I know can explain
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Quad ESL
Jun 30, 2023 14:22:10 GMT
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Post by bencat on Jun 30, 2023 14:22:10 GMT
Well as a very new member I am slowly reading my way through different areas . In my main system I use Quad ESL 57 speakers which I have owned now for about five or so years . Straight from the off I will say that I love these speakers . They are not perfect and have some faults that many are not able to over look but if they fit in with what you like to hear in music then they are very difficult to better . I have had a long road in getting mine working well , first off mine were sent to Andrew Jones of AQuadthing Audio who replaced the bass panels worked on the crossovers bringing them up to spec . Then you need to find an amplifier that will drive them . They are a very difficult load with the treble at one point being a complete short , lots of solid state amplifiers struggle . Valve amplifiers are happier but I used a Croft OTL 3 which should have been ideal but just never worked . Now in my second three way active system I used NVA amplifiers and these were originally designed using Quads . So after lots of issues and repairs and upgrades I now use an NVA S300 power amplifier volume controlled by my dCS Delius DAC the music this makes is the best I have ever had at home and is just stunning . But just to be clear to hear ESL 57 at their best you need stands that lift the 12 to 18 inches off the floor . In my view you also need to push them forward so the panels are flat to the listener , they were originally designed as a mono speaker and in there day they were tilted towards to bounce the sound off the ceiling to give a more spacious image as a single source . Used as a stereo pair this is no longer a good thing . I also have mine with wooden spikes on the outrigger legs and then in to some Aircraft Vibration Mounts from the 60/70s which are glued to small granite coasters (from Denholms) which are spring loaded and make the Quads have even better imaging and much tighter and deeper bass . I do not have a very large music room and for years I was told Quads would never work stupidly I believed this nonsense and denied myself the chance of buying any . Just not true they sound wonderfully musical in my room and get used most days. With all this gushing it is clear I think these are a very special speaker and not bettered by many . 63,s have lots of similar strengths and are led compromised in some ways but I prefer the 57s .
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palace
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Post by palace on Jul 6, 2023 13:15:36 GMT
Well as a very new member I am slowly reading my way through different areas . In my main system I use Quad ESL 57 speakers which I have owned now for about five or so years . Straight from the off I will say that I love these speakers . They are not perfect and have some faults that many are not able to over look but if they fit in with what you like to hear in music then they are very difficult to better . I have had a long road in getting mine working well , first off mine were sent to Andrew Jones of AQuadthing Audio who replaced the bass panels worked on the crossovers bringing them up to spec . Then you need to find an amplifier that will drive them . They are a very difficult load with the treble at one point being a complete short , lots of solid state amplifiers struggle . Valve amplifiers are happier but I used a Croft OTL 3 which should have been ideal but just never worked . Now in my second three way active system I used NVA amplifiers and these were originally designed using Quads . So after lots of issues and repairs and upgrades I now use an NVA S300 power amplifier volume controlled by my dCS Delius DAC the music this makes is the best I have ever had at home and is just stunning . But just to be clear to hear ESL 57 at their best you need stands that lift the 12 to 18 inches off the floor . In my view you also need to push them forward so the panels are flat to the listener , they were originally designed as a mono speaker and in there day they were tilted towards to bounce the sound off the ceiling to give a more spacious image as a single source . Used as a stereo pair this is no longer a good thing . I also have mine with wooden spikes on the outrigger legs and then in to some Aircraft Vibration Mounts from the 60/70s which are glued to small granite coasters (from Denholms) which are spring loaded and make the Quads have even better imaging and much tighter and deeper bass . I do not have a very large music room and for years I was told Quads would never work stupidly I believed this nonsense and denied myself the chance of buying any . Just not true they sound wonderfully musical in my room and get used most days. With all this gushing it is clear I think these are a very special speaker and not bettered by many . 63,s have lots of similar strengths and are led compromised in some ways but I prefer the 57s . bencat I have just seen your entry I agree emphatically so called Quad 57's once called simply ESL's, there were no other options do need to be raised, I neglected to mention that I use the substantial One Thing Audio Rupert stands with no isolation & positioned not quite vertical screwed tightly to the Rupert's with substantial screws & the tilt adjustment bolts. I also recommend the OTA Widgets in my case the MK1's re-wired certainly work. I have mentioned elsewhere. Although called 57's I first heard a single Quad ESL voiced for mono at the Radio Show at Olympia in 1956 so quite a long time ago. I remember telling Peter Walker at Huntingdon in the late 1970's/early 1980's he was surprised as I was only 7 or 8 years old at the time.
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Post by bencat on Sept 22, 2023 13:28:50 GMT
Well been a while and thought I would just add some musings on this thread . Currently with some quite minor tweaks and changes like speaker cable (Audioquest F14) and copper banana plugs plus some software tweaks on my LB Clock I am so pleased with end results . My Quads have never sounded so good they are honestly silent when no signal being applied and they just make me wonder at the Music that seems to just drift out of them letting voices sound like real people singing , letting bass notes rise and fall while other instruments move in the opposite direction . I could not ever really nice these speakers on they are by no means perfect but what they do seems to suit my tastes and what they fail to do does not seem to matter to me . It is amazing how many things this design gets right and how few other designs can even get close . I have admitted on another forum that one of my biggest hi do mistakes was being convinced by others that these speakers would not work in my room , would have no bass and would only image of you kept your head perfectly still all nonsense . They can only play classical and folk not Fun Reggae or Rock well that is just pants as well . I know that you have to work to get these speakers to sound good . Amplifier choice is critical the frankly almost short circuit of the crossover needs an amp that will cope . Many use Valves as they are mostly transformer coupled and are not upset by the cr swings . There are some solid state amps which do cope , my old Krell KSA50 was one and my current NVA is just superb it just gets out of the way and let's the Music flow .
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palace
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Post by palace on Sept 22, 2023 14:44:28 GMT
Well been a while and thought I would just add some musings on this thread . Currently with some quite minor tweaks and changes like speaker cable (Audioquest F14) and copper banana plugs plus some software tweaks on my LB Clock I am so pleased with end results . My Quads have never sounded so good they are honestly silent when no signal being applied and they just make me wonder at the Music that seems to just drift out of them letting voices sound like real people singing , letting bass notes rise and fall while other instruments move in the opposite direction . I could not ever really nice these speakers on they are by no means perfect but what they do seems to suit my tastes and what they fail to do does not seem to matter to me . It is amazing how many things this design gets right and how few other designs can even get close . I have admitted on another forum that one of my biggest hi do mistakes was being convinced by others that these speakers would not work in my room , would have no bass and would only image of you kept your head perfectly still all nonsense . They can only play classical and folk not Fun Reggae or Rock well that is just pants as well . I know that you have to work to get these speakers to sound good . Amplifier choice is critical the frankly almost short circuit of the crossover needs an amp that will cope . Many use Valves as they are mostly transformer coupled and are not upset by the cr swings . There are some solid state amps which do cope , my old Krell KSA50 was one and my current NVA is just superb it just gets out of the way and let's the Music flow . Leads do make a surprising difference to Quad 57's preferably low inductance ones, I have used a plethora of amplifiers with the 3 pairs of Quad 57's I have owned, including Quad 303's & 2's & a massive B.O.M. hybrid valve combination of valve preamplifier sporting a pair of rare as, Mullard CV2493 & a 150 wpc SS power amplifier. It died after 15 years or so I replaced it with a Rogue Audio Atlas Magnum a marriage made in heaven with my current OTA Quad 57's, bass is palpable you can feel in the chest on drums, Mark Manwaring-White of Malvern Audio Research was here a week or so ago sorting my Croft phono stage. he made several favorable comments regarding the depth & power of the bass. As Peter Walker said "they will do bass with the right amplifier" bencat you are quite right eschewing the opinions of those who tell others all sorts of well meaning suppositions there is also more ill informed gonads talked particularly about 57's than probably any other speaker, occasionally they do not work usually it's the amp, sometimes placement they like to fire down a room not across sometimes it's both. However diligence & persistence often wins in the end as bencat states the correct choice of amplifier is hyper critical often superb classic valve & SS amplifiers are honestly but erroneously touted as being a good fit, usually midrange & treble are exquisite but again the bass is missing with NVA speakers Richard Dunn used Quad 57's when designing the NVA circuit. My valve Atlas Magnum was modified by Rogue for Quad 57 users in the USA, I have read that the SS ASR Emitter is possibly the best though out of my price range.
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Quad ESL
Oct 16, 2023 13:01:48 GMT
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Post by bencat on Oct 16, 2023 13:01:48 GMT
Just listening to my main system and really loving the sound . My preference for thin solid core speaker cables has been proven once again to be something I really like . The Audioquest F14 I bought just because they were cheap has proved to be a very good upgrade . Having now fully burned them in using the Tara Labs track advised on here they are doing all the things my old DNM cables used to initial impression is that they are slightly dull and bass light but this quickly changes to them being very neutral and letting you hear all the detail but in a very infused and natural way which does not high light any separate part of the spectrum . This what the Quads do as well and after quite a long burn in the sound has settled and smoothed out to give you a real feeling of being there but say a little away from the players not up close . This perspective is one I prefer at concerts I do not want to be in the front row but a free rows back which is what I am hearing now . So things on this system are really getting to be how I want them to be , as for my system for the Wam Show well that is a different matter and little time left as well .
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Post by MartinT on Oct 16, 2023 13:18:40 GMT
as for my system for the Wam Show well that is a different matter and little time left as well . What will you be taking?
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Post by bencat on Oct 16, 2023 15:22:45 GMT
Hi Martin I am taking my third two way active system which will have source as a Raspberry Pi 4 running as a Logitech Media Server only using Picoreplayer with a Sean Jacobs LPSU , Player is going to be a Squeezebox Touch with its own LPSU , this will then feed into Mutec with LB external clock , the Mutec then feeding a MiniDSP DDRC 24 which will be digital crossover , DIRAC Live DSP and DAC . Analogue output from this to two Fiddle Audio upgraded Quad 405 amps which will be powering a pair of Linn Sara 9 speakers . Hopefully this will all travel instal and then offer up some quality music . I have been having a few issues but these seem to have styled down now and it sounded good this morning . Fingers crossed that this can continue and include the Show .
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palace
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Post by palace on Oct 19, 2023 15:01:33 GMT
Well been a while and thought I would just add some musings on this thread . Currently with some quite minor tweaks and changes like speaker cable (Audioquest F14) and copper banana plugs plus some software tweaks on my LB Clock I am so pleased with end results . My Quads have never sounded so good they are honestly silent when no signal being applied and they just make me wonder at the Music that seems to just drift out of them letting voices sound like real people singing , letting bass notes rise and fall while other instruments move in the opposite direction . I could not ever really nice these speakers on they are by no means perfect but what they do seems to suit my tastes and what they fail to do does not seem to matter to me . It is amazing how many things this design gets right and how few other designs can even get close . I have admitted on another forum that one of my biggest hi do mistakes was being convinced by others that these speakers would not work in my room , would have no bass and would only image of you kept your head perfectly still all nonsense . They can only play classical and folk not Fun Reggae or Rock well that is just pants as well . I know that you have to work to get these speakers to sound good . Amplifier choice is critical the frankly almost short circuit of the crossover needs an amp that will cope . Many use Valves as they are mostly transformer coupled and are not upset by the cr swings . There are some solid state amps which do cope , my old Krell KSA50 was one and my current NVA is just superb it just gets out of the way and let's the Music flow . I have waxed lyrical about Mark Manwaring-White fitting SUT's in my Croft phono stage & my efforts to fight massive amounts of RFI/EMI with Clip on ferrites on all power & digital leads & using copper foil to silence the Croft. I remember bencat saying and commenting on this paragraph "I have admitted on another forum that one of my biggest hi do mistakes was being convinced by others that these speakers would not work in my room , would have no bass and would only image of you kept your head perfectly still all nonsense . They can only play classical and folk not Fun Reggae or Rock well that is just pants as well" I have also been guilty of this, years ago I tried clip on ferrites on my phono leads with a negative result, so I accepted the consensus that they would adversely affect speaker leads as well, in the latest TNT test I saw a picture of an unusually high quality class D amplifier where I saw 4 individual solid round ferrites with the 4 individual speaker lead outputs twisted around the ferrites individually. As I use cross connected coaxial speaker leads I clipped a single ferrite to each of the 4 positives & negatives & before the box where the positive/negative are cross connected I clipped a 13mm ferrite inductively coupling the 2 parts of the cable. The result has left me gobsmacked. My system is all valve except the digital of course with the volume on full with the Croft turned to full cartridge on the rest there was a barely discernible hiss. After attaching the ferrites there is no hiss indeed no noise at all nothing has been lost only enhanced, switching back & forth from the DAC channel to phono no audible difference. I have not stopped listening for 7 hours record after record Virgin Tivo box recordings & CD's all have more definition cleaner bass that's deeper than ever mid's & treble sweeter, the reverb or acoustic where applicable palpable on the choir The 16 version of the Allegri Miserere sung in a now accurate sounding reverberant hall, even applause on a live recording sounds so real. Before this recording was good now the High "C" soars & soars in the wonderful acoustic. 60+ years ago before my voice broke I was a chorister with the English schools choir & recognise a natural acoustic. Whatever I play from the War of the Worlds the chimes of Big Ben are bloody close to real,I worked at The Palace of Westminster for 11 years from Floyd to Velvet Underground or Classical the result is just so good have I reached my 55 year goal. The only thing left is to fit my Hana ML with a Cartridgman "Isolator" left over from testing/evaluating them for Len Gregory. I am so very very happy.
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palace
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Post by palace on Feb 10, 2024 17:27:41 GMT
An indication of the changes wrought to the system were put in focus today, playing a double CD by the Canadian music producer & DJ deadmau5 called "deadmau5 while(1<2)"? This is is not my usual musical fare and would not normally have piqued my interest, originally heard played on my son's Mark Manwaring-White modified & recapped X over front vented TDL non transmission line but now front not rear ported floor standers 150wpc power amp & the TNT Pre-amble Nuvistor pre amp john built from scratch guided by Mark, I was sufficiently interested/impressed I bought the album.
Having spent quite some time as evidenced by my recent posts about removing or more correctly preventing RFI/EMI & 50h hum entering the system via the power & phono leads. The TNT cross connected coax UBYTE2 speaker cables are seemingly immune.
Today I put the album "deadmau5 while(1<2)" on & it played perfectly from my CD4se used as a transport via the Caiman/Dorado3 DAC, the OTA Quad 57's had no problems with the very low bass notes when played at close to my normal listening level, so was it the electrostatic OTA Quad 57's speakers that had a problem?
My wife was out, her tinnitus unfortunately prevents me playing the system when she is home, she came in & said she that even with our flat/apartment block being solidly brick built & with our thick fire-resistant front door closed she could hear the bass in the downstairs communal corridor. sorry neighbours.
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Quad ESL
Feb 10, 2024 21:06:25 GMT
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Post by mattspl on Feb 10, 2024 21:06:25 GMT
Time to soundproof the room so you can enjoy the system when your wife is home and also not annoy the neighbours.
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Post by MartinT on Feb 10, 2024 21:18:18 GMT
Time to soundproof the room so you can enjoy the system when your wife is home and also not annoy the neighbours. While you can soundproof a room quite successfully, it's very difficult to do anything about bass. It gets through floors and walls as subsonic vibrations and you can't easily dampen that unless you rebuild the room.
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Post by mattspl on Feb 10, 2024 21:20:58 GMT
Time to soundproof the room so you can enjoy the system when your wife is home and also not annoy the neighbours. While you can soundproof a room quite successfully, it's very difficult to do anything about bass. It gets through floors and walls as subsonic vibrations and you can't easily dampen that unless you rebuild the room. I’d imagine that could be very costly and you’d end up with a tiny room at the end of it.
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palace
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Post by palace on Feb 10, 2024 22:42:18 GMT
While you can soundproof a room quite successfully, it's very difficult to do anything about bass. It gets through floors and walls as subsonic vibrations and you can't easily dampen that unless you rebuild the room. I’d imagine that could be very costly and you’d end up with a tiny room at the end of it. We are on the top floor of a 1950's block of purpose built flats with cavity walls filled with thermal beads with 6" thick reinforced high density concrete floors, when we bought the loft & extended to create the stairs, 2 double bed rooms + toilet/shower room, it took 18 months to get the party wall agreements alone completed. I'm 75 in a few months please not again...
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