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Post by Chris on Aug 25, 2016 19:21:05 GMT
So ChrisB brought this up so help me here please... I'm thinking of using my 8P for bass and the AR07 for the rest. How? If the 8P is 50watts(I think) and the AR is 95 am I losing power? How do I set it up? Speaker cables from the 8P to the LF posts on the 752s? AR to the HF posts? Then link the 8P to the AR?
Can I kill my kit if I fork this up? I'm not home till Thursday so plenty time to mull it over.
As ever,your help is appreciated.
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Post by John on Aug 25, 2016 20:00:40 GMT
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Post by MartinT on Aug 25, 2016 20:02:45 GMT
Speakers with split crossovers are the easiest to setup for bi-amping. Yours clearly have them with its separate inputs.
You can do it with a split output from your preamp to drive both amps, then set their volumes to get a good balance between bass and mid/treble. You can use a dB meter or even a phone app to get it roughly right.
If you're using integrateds, you will need a variable line output (not the fixed tape outputs) from Amp1 into the CD or auxiliary input of Amp2. Then set the volume on Amp2 to get the balance right and use the volume on Amp1 for everyday volume setting.
Be sure you are not using a fixed line level output or you will not be able to control the total volume properly.
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Post by Chris on Aug 25, 2016 20:07:49 GMT
Well that's that idea out the window. Far too complicated.
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Post by ChrisB on Aug 25, 2016 20:12:51 GMT
Much simpler with amps that come from the same maker as they will most likely have the same voltage gain, so no faffing about setting levels. This is why I brought up the idea of doing it with two AR amps Chris. I've been bi-amping for almost twenty years, except for a short spell when I tri-amped!
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Post by John on Aug 25, 2016 20:15:48 GMT
I have bi amped in the past and its really not to complex as Chris suggest In my set up at the time it certainly helped
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Post by MartinT on Aug 25, 2016 20:18:18 GMT
Ok, let's try it like this: 1) Buy two 'Y' phono splitters (one plug to two sockets) and plug them into 'Pre-out' sockets of Amp1. 2) Take one set of interconnects, connect them between one leg of the Y splitters and the Amp1's own 'Power in' sockets. 3) Take the other set of interconnects, plug them from the other legs of the Y splitters to the CD or Aux inputs of Amp2. 4) Connect the speakers outputs from Amp1 to the speaker mid/treble terminals, and the outputs from Amp2 to the bass terminals. So now Amp1 controls everything and Amp2 is the slave. Use Amp2's volume control to set the balance between bass and mid/treble and then leave it alone. You can do it by ear if you like. Control everything from Amp1's volume control. Connect all the source components to Amp1.
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Post by Chris on Aug 25, 2016 20:20:50 GMT
Now we're getting there. Pictures and explanations for 10 year olds,perfect.
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Post by Chris on Aug 25, 2016 20:22:28 GMT
Ah,damn,the 8P doesn't have a volume control
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Post by MartinT on Aug 25, 2016 20:24:17 GMT
So all you need for experimentation are two adapters costing £6 and a couple of sets of interconnects. Assuming your speakers are already bi-wired. If not, you need another set of speaker cables, too. Don't forget to remove the speaker terminal links if the latter is true.
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Post by MartinT on Aug 25, 2016 20:25:23 GMT
Ah,damn,the 8P doesn't have a volume control That's a potential problem. You could try and see if the amp gains are close enough. Just make the 8P Amp2.
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Post by Slinger on Aug 25, 2016 21:32:54 GMT
You could always pick up a cheap used Alpha 8 or 8r integrated and use that as the pre-amp and to supply the HF for your speakers with the 8p used for the LF. If I remember correctly you need to remove the big metal "Link" from the back of the 8p if you use that configuration.
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Post by ChrisB on Aug 25, 2016 22:42:00 GMT
Which brings us back to the AR power amp that I mentioned - it matches the gain of Chris' superb A-07 integrated, is still only £145 and I think it would do a better job than anything made by A&R (with or without Mr Arcam!)
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Post by Chris on Aug 26, 2016 4:17:28 GMT
You could always pick up a cheap used Alpha 8 or 8r integrated and use that as the pre-amp and to supply the HF for your speakers with the 8p used for the LF. If I remember correctly you need to remove the big metal "Link" from the back of the 8p if you use that configuration. I've got an 8 sitting there as well,might try it like that. The AR power amp would be cool but just cannot justify it just now - too many amps at the moment!
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Post by pinkie on Aug 26, 2016 5:40:06 GMT
Sometimes it's worth remembering when you are up to your arse in crocodiles, that the original objective was to drain the swamp.
Bi-amping can offer benefits in some situations, but is not always better. That is to say that it is not true that any biamp is better than any conventional arrangements, and certainly not to the point where you add artificial crossover elements of the cheap integrated amp volume control variety.
So it's best done with matched power amps
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Post by MartinT on Aug 26, 2016 5:49:04 GMT
I would agree with that, but possibly worth the lash-up just so that Chris can hear the results for himself.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2016 9:38:01 GMT
The alternative 1 off solution is get a Inca Tech Quatra it was design for that reason. Some are being sold all over e-bay in resent days. I comes in a few shapes and manufactures.
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Post by yomanze on Aug 26, 2016 17:26:50 GMT
Am not a fan of horizontal bi-amping, but would think it could be of more benefit to systems with complex crossovers. Mine are 1st order 2 way. Overall I think monoblocks, stereo amps or vertical bi amping offer a more cohesive sound.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2016 3:18:57 GMT
Am not a fan of horizontal bi-amping, but would think it could be of more benefit to systems with complex crossovers. Mine are 1st order 2 way. Overall I think monoblocks, stereo amps or vertical bi amping offer a more cohesive sound. Please explain that idea further and how could that be applied to a active system if indeed it could.
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Post by ChrisB on Aug 27, 2016 20:25:22 GMT
Here's another way to do b-amping Chris. There's another A-07 on Ebay - Buy It Now for 85 quid.With splitters like the ones Martin linked to between your source and the amps, you can have one per channel - monoblocks, effectively. Send the output from the left hand speaker channel in each amp to the tweeters and the right channels to the bass drivers and Bob's yer Aunties live-in lover.
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