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Post by MartinT on Oct 7, 2019 6:08:59 GMT
I've been listening to the Mutec MC-3+ USB since Saturday, kindly loaned to me by Coherent Systems. This is a fascinating device: reclocker, external master word clock, format converter and more. When Tony suggested I try it as an alternative to the Allo Kali doing my reclocking, I was doubtful. However, I know that Tony never wastes my time so I was intrigued, too. I've been using it as a reclocker with its internal master clock. Let me explain how this differs from my current setup: CURRENTPi/Volumio -> GPIO -> Allo Kali reclocker -> I 2S -> LKS DAC WITH MUTECPi/Volumio -> USB -> Mutec MC-3 reclocker -> AES/EBU -> LKS DAC Remember that my LKS now has the Coherent femtoclock onboard, so how much more can things be improved by feeding it with a more clock accurate signal? The answer is, a lot more than you can reasonably expect. The Mutec comprehensively outperforms the Kali in every way, but the thing that it does over and above anything else is 'de-grain', making the musical presentation sound more relaxed, further reducing the noise floor but still bringing out all the detail available from the source. The timing is astonishing and so is bass quality. Live recordings sound immensely 'present' and everything I've put through it so far has been improved (yes, even my favourite Hawkwind test). I've tried Qobuz, Spotify, OneDrive cloud files, and local CDs as sources. All benefit from the Mutec treatment. It's one clever bit of German design, very pro-looking with all its settings and LEDs (which thankfully can be turned off when everything is setup).  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 8:18:14 GMT
Interesting Martin.
Have you tried the super duper clock they produce as a point of comparison?
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Post by MartinT on Oct 7, 2019 8:22:39 GMT
Have you tried the super duper clock they produce as a point of comparison? The Ref 10? Nope, I won't evaluate things I wouldn't consider buying. Listening to the MC-3, it's hard to think how it could be bettered but there would still be potential optimisations that can be done (e.g. replacing the stock rubbish USB cable provided with something decent, putting it on Black Ravioli, powering it from a supercap 5V DC power supply, replacing the Pi with, say, an Asus Tinkerboard S which has a much better USB output). |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 8:45:44 GMT
Interesting Martin. Have you tried the super duper clock they produce as a point of comparison? Hi Martin The Ref 10 will not directly fit into Martin's system as it is configured. The Ref 10 is purely a very high quality word clock which is used as a master clock to keep all of the others items correctly aligned through a word clock input. The MC3+usb can actually output a pretty decent word clock on by its self, as well as take a 10Mhz reference clock input, together they are rather special. However the vast majority of potential users will never really need more than the MC3+/usb models. I believe your speakers should be at your home, a txt from Fed ex this morning indicated they had been signed for. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 12:57:23 GMT
Thanks Martin and fair enough - that makes sense. Great sounding item.
Tony, I have a package waiting at home for me 😊 Thank you sir.
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Post by Pinch on Oct 8, 2019 14:43:11 GMT
I've been listening to the Mutec MC-3+ USB since Saturday, kindly loaned to me by Coherent Systems. ... This would be a very interesting change, Martin, if you stick with it. FWIW, I did have the impression when I tried my streamer + USB interface in your system that it was doing a little something that the Pi+Kali wasn't, so I'm not surprised that you're getting such good results with a functionally similar set up. I'd absolutely expect to get further gains by replacing the Pi with something with a cleaner USB output (Allo's USB brigde looks like a nice option, then there's the StreamBox or the SoTM), and (secondarily) by trying some different USB cables (I use a Black Cat one, which does a nice job). |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 8, 2019 17:40:59 GMT
You're thinking along the same lines as me, Tom. Assuming I buy the Mutec (and it is very compelling - MikeMusic came around today so he can comment), I was thinking about good USB and AES cables. Then I thought about the Pi, which has the compromised ethernet/USB subsystem. What has better ethernet and USB than the Pi, runs Volumio and has the same form factor? The Asus Tinkerboard S (as used in the Volumio Primo). |
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 8, 2019 18:47:33 GMT
I believe the Primo can also be used as a transport with external DAC.
I wonder how it compares.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 8, 2019 19:15:38 GMT
Indeed, if the Primo was made in a DAC-less version it would be ideal.
However, it would be easy for me to make up an Asus board in a case and get it running in no time. No add-on boards makes it very straightforward.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2019 19:29:53 GMT
Now you are getting there
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Post by MartinT on Oct 8, 2019 19:37:47 GMT
Now you are getting there You see through my cunning plan! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2019 19:55:20 GMT
I might had a slightly more adventurous board you can try with custom win 7 pro stripped right back, fan-less, under-clocked, and strategic upgrades on the board, 4GB of UC ram, PCIE SDD for OS and custom playback programe which you could replace with volumio Gigabyte. Does a fair turn of playback
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Post by MartinT on Oct 8, 2019 20:51:02 GMT
Mmm, tempting but I always said I won't put a PC in my music room. Anyway, I think I'll blaze a trail with the Tinkerboard S which is pretty powerful (much more so than the Pi) and can be easily underclocked with unnecessary modules like w-fi shut down. Makes for a tempting and tiny Linux-based Volumio headless streamer.
The solution was always there potentially but I saw USB as the problem, thus I2S, Kali and HDMI boards getting in the way. You live and learn.
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Post by Pinch on Oct 8, 2019 21:16:54 GMT
Sounds like a nice project, Martin. Assuming you stay on this path, I shall have to pop by again - I'd be interested to compare both my USB interface with the Mutec, and the Stream Box with whatever your new streamer will be.
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Post by John on Oct 9, 2019 5:26:34 GMT
This sounds like a really interesting project I am looking forward to see how it develops
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Post by speedysteve on Oct 9, 2019 7:26:47 GMT
Interesting - will also be following. Not sure I can make use of AES/EBU but then there was this - above my current understanding (but you learn and live  ) linkUnfortunately Nick the creator is Najda is currently missing in Bolivia - was on a year plus long trail bike riding expedition! We're all hoping he's okay. |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 9, 2019 9:20:52 GMT
What's beginning to dawn on me, Steve, is that the LKS handles AES much better than it handles I2S. For instance, I get proper muting now rather than thumps between tracks.
For you, I think you already have the ideal solution especially as you're running local I2S.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 9, 2019 10:34:14 GMT
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Post by speedysteve on Oct 9, 2019 11:48:20 GMT
What's beginning to dawn on me, Steve, is that the LKS handles AES much better than it handles I2S. For instance, I get proper muting now rather than thumps between tracks. For you, I think you already have the ideal solution especially as you're running local I2S. Yeah, I'm struggling to hear how what I have could be improved upon. So much better than CD, USB WaveIO etc. but you never know.. Interest aways peeked.. |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 9, 2019 20:16:14 GMT
I ordered an Audioquest Cinnamon AES cable. The supplier was out of stock and so are Audioquest. He sent me a Carbon as a goodwill gesture. Result!
It's bloody good, too.
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