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Post by brettj on Oct 9, 2023 11:27:40 GMT
Tubulus Argentus i2S cable arrived yesterday. Hey Brett, how is the Tubulus cable coming along? Hey Martin Haven't had much of a chance to listen. The Tubulus has near 500 hours, and the Puritan PSM156 + Ultimate cable has over 600 hours (a decent amount of which is Tara Labs Cascade). I'm thinking that's enough... Maybe Wednesday will take an hour or so. |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 9, 2023 18:05:47 GMT
A good listen earlier this evening and I am astonished, as burn-in is still yielding changes.
Let's analyse this a bit: the Tubulus cable is probably still burning-in as it's silver and, being a low-voltage clock cable, the process is going to be grindingly slow.
However, what is happening with the tungsten cubes? Being bonded to the K-2 modules in both cases, are they modifying the way the K-2 works, necessitating burn-in? Does this have a further good impact on the clock quality? A double whammy, if you like? There is no doubt that the increase in precision, fine detail and dynamics in particular are down to these mods performed to the U18 / X26 Pro subsystem. I don't know when it will stop but I like what it's doing. It feels like being closer to the master tape.
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Post by MikeMusic on Oct 10, 2023 8:22:58 GMT
You got me Take the win even if it makes no sense  |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 20, 2023 11:08:07 GMT
After an epic amount of burn-in, the X26 Pro has settled into a high level of performance which is incredibly pleasing. This morning I performed the finishing touches: some Dodomat damping around the tungsten cube and a whole sheet of it on the inside of the top cover. If you're going to dampen the inside cover, make sure to offer up the cover after attaching the mat, then remove and check for marks. I had a feint line marking where the vertical circuit board was just touching it. I used the barrel of a large pen to shape a deep indentation at this point to prevent touching. It's all done and warming up again. I shall report fully on the sound I'm achieving a little later when I have another session at full temperature.  |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 20, 2023 18:19:31 GMT
Summary – System Sound Quality
After my most recent mods – two 20mm tungsten cubes, one each applied to the X26 Pro DAC and U18 DDC K-2 clock synthesiser modules, and the new Tubulus Concentus 50 ohm clock cable – together with a tremendous amount of Tara Labs Cascade burn-in amounting to around 500 hours, I thought it was time to put my findings into writing for those who are interested.
Technical description
The above mods all affect the clocking of the system. The Tubulus cable feeds the 2nd 10MHz AfterDark sinewave clock into the DDC’s K-2 clock synthesiser module, responsible for deriving the clock for the various incoming data sampling rates. This K-2 now has a 20mm tungsten cube attached for damping. The master clock is then fed via another Tubulus cable, the I2S feed, to the DAC’s K-2 module, which has another 20mm tungsten cube attached with damping mat around it for damping and heat retention. The overall impact of the mods should be to reduce jitter and phase noise from the signal.
Geek sound quality
There is more impact to the sound with enhanced dynamics and deeper, tighter bass. Micro-detail is brought out as is edge definition to percussive sounds. Bass punch is more obvious with the listening seat responding in sympathy. The soundstage is wider and deeper, with longer note decay. Voice is brought forward and is airy and breathy but not tonally affected.
Musical sound quality
This is going to sound like stating the bleeding obvious, but bear with me. The system, to a greater degree than before, adopts the sound quality and tonality of the recording. This means that I am hearing the ‘natural sound’ of the recording for better or worse, depending on its recorded quality.
No warmth is added by the system, which is something I have always targeted as I do not like such characteristics introduced by any system. If a recording is warm, it sounds that way and if it is harsh then it, too, sounds that way. There is no papering over the cracks or being ‘forgiving’ as that is not what I desire. I want to hear the master tape as the engineer intended it to be heard. To a greater extent than before, this goal has been achieved and it constantly makes me sit up and pay attention.
Piano sounds incredibly percussive with the leading strike being highly defined and the note tailing off naturally. When you hear piano like this it sounds true to pianos I’ve heard in concert. Percussion instruments, in a similar way, are better defined with the timbre of the instrument being more easily identified. Cymbals, bells, triangles etc. sound lifelike and bring out the Usher beryllium tweeter’s strengths more obviously, without being too forward but sitting naturally within the mix.
Strange microphone choices, exampled by Feist’s Metals album and Lana Del Rey’s NFR! album sound more obviously manipulated than before, and generally not in a good way although it adds to the persona of these two performers. In other recordings, voice is liquid and able to soar with no tilting of the balance and no holding back, making performances by the likes of Chris Isaak, Cat Stevens and Van Morrison exceptionally realistic on occasion.
Live events sound truly live and believable if the recording has captured it well. It is possible to close my eyes and transport myself to a very realistic portrayal of the venue. Here is an exception to the general rule in that all live recordings I have played so far sound more vibrant, vivid and exciting than before. While some recordings are difficult to rescue, such as ELP’s Welcome Back My Friends, others like Hawkwind’s Space Ritual, Natalie Merchant’s Live in Concert and Janis Ian’s Working Without a Net are a revelation.
Conclusions
I still see comments about streaming sounding flat or not as good as CD in various forums and they make me shake my head and smile. It’s really not about the streaming format, more about the inadequacies of the systems concerned. Streaming isn’t easy to get right and slinging a Bluesound Node into an existing system isn’t going to cut it. A digital system needs to have as much attention paid to it as a dedicated LP replay system. It needs to be dedicated to the task and highly optimised if you want high end sound, but it most certainly is achievable. I feel like I have really started, just started, to unlock the potential of recordings and hear what the artist and engineer intended.
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Post by stellabagpuss on Oct 20, 2023 22:27:18 GMT
Great to hear the tungsten is working well for you Martin.
Funny the thought of covering the cube had crossed my mind also, so once my R26 has had few hours under its belt, l may follow.
Keep up the good work....
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Post by nicholas on Oct 20, 2023 23:24:37 GMT
A perfect summary, Martin. Over time our systems evolved with common components, notably streamer, DAC, DDC, ER and cabling. I followed you down the path with a pair of tungsten cubes as they were inexpensive and I can't seem to resist monkeying around with tweaks.
I honestly have no idea what is working with tungsten cubes or Tara break in but they work exactly how you describe. Leading edges and decay create a stunning sonic portrait with everything I play. Clarity and dynamics coexist in a completely satisfying new way.
Thanks for documenting the journey and continuing to blaze a trail in our collective hobby and passion.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 20, 2023 23:39:42 GMT
Honestly, reading that you guys are having your own successes with these mods warms my heart and really makes sharing worthwhile.
May the tungsten bring you eternal clarity and slam.
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Post by orange55 on Oct 21, 2023 7:00:27 GMT
While I am still a few steps behind you in your system journey and with different kit I am not sure I will ever get to having a cube inside one of my components. The actions and gains I certainly use or inspire changes and tests in my own system.
Since joining this forum my bass is harder, puncher, more dynamic, more detailed, more lifelike and my soundstage has grown a lot. Yet all that said my main components and speakers have not changed.
I have though massively cleaned up my internet feed, not moved to 4/5g as there is not enough signal where I live. Plus changed my supports on a number of things, including my subs. No more spike, what a big lesson that was.
One thing that keeps knocking at more door is external clocks, but that will involved selling some kit and moving to versions that allow that. Seems like that could be a bit of a rabbit hole and money pit.
I’m like many here I am still bemused by the impact the Tara labs burn in has, but happy to not worry about how it works and enjoy the benefits. 😀
So thank you and keep the updates coming.
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Post by MartinT on Oct 21, 2023 8:14:38 GMT
Yet all that said my main components and speakers have not changed. That's part of the challenge - getting better sound from what you already have. Well done for doing so! A side-benefit of this is that it better leads you to what you will change in the future by identifying the bottleneck. |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 23, 2023 16:03:53 GMT
Up-to-date diagram. The system balance is just perfect and I don't anticipate any further tweaking until the Uptone EtherREGEN Gen 2 is launched next year.  |
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atoz
Rank: Trio
Posts: 147
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Post by atoz on Oct 28, 2023 10:19:22 GMT
Added a 20mm block to my x26pro last week (blu tac) and my findings were well covered here by Martin, Nicholas and Damien.
I was listening to led zep ll cd last night and I must admit there would be a couple of tracks I might skip but last night I didn't, I was that much into the music the cd was over before I knew it.
I also have a 15mm block on it's way,just to try, I don't believe Martin or Nicholas tried 15mm?
I suppose if the 20mm worked for Martin and Nicholas and myself both have the x26pro, 20mm is the right size/weight.
I think my cdt6000 clock will be getting the spare block.
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Post by stellabagpuss on Oct 28, 2023 18:54:23 GMT
In short, I found the 15mm had wider and a better soundstage,more dimentional, better timing I guess. With the 20mm this decreased to my ears, I tested a number of times to double check. I can't give you a reason behind for this, except a R26 isn't a X26.
I simply covered both bases from Jake on Head Fi, who had both 15 and 20mm to hand.
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atoz
Rank: Trio
Posts: 147
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Post by atoz on Oct 28, 2023 20:43:24 GMT
In short, I found the 15mm had wider and a better soundstage,more dimentional, better timing I guess. With the 20mm this decreased to my ears, I tested a number of times to double check. I can't give you a reason behind for this, except a R26 isn't a X26. I simply covered both bases from Jake on Head Fi, who had both 15 and 20mm to hand. Damien,cheers for your findings between the 15mm and 20mm blocks. Martin,just out of interest,did you try any other sizes of tungsten blocks with the x26pro before deciding on the 20mm? Cheers |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 28, 2023 23:00:07 GMT
No Clifford, I didn't. I just chose the size I had used in my previous testing with my older BG7TBL clock and decided that it fits the K-2 synthesiser module perfectly.
I did discover that the 20mm tungsten cube needed one hell of a load of burn-in before it achieved its final performance, far more than I've ever had to use the Tara Labs Cascade signal with in the past. This could well be down to the tungsten's large size. I can't even get my head around a cube burning-in but let that pass for a minute. Bear in mind, also, that I had two cubes burning-in with only a week apart in their installation (U18 and X26 Pro). Also, I bonded both of mine with 2-part epoxy to create very close coupling. All these changes meant that it took its time before the sound settled down.
Now that it has, the sum effect is awesome. I think, therefore, that the smaller cubes take less settling down and give of their benefits in a shorter time. However, if you're patient, the 20mm size gets there and the impact may well be greater. I am, in any case, extremely happy with the outcome.
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Post by stellabagpuss on Oct 28, 2023 23:37:19 GMT
Yes Martin,longer burn in time due to size,seems logical to me.
l guess the result leads to the same roads.
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atoz
Rank: Trio
Posts: 147
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Post by atoz on Oct 29, 2023 6:23:12 GMT
No Clifford, I didn't. I just chose the size I had used in my previous testing with my older BG7TBL clock and decided that it fits the K-2 synthesiser module perfectly. I did discover that the 20mm tungsten cube needed one hell of a load of burn-in before it achieved its final performance, far more than I've ever had to use the Tara Labs Cascade signal with in the past. This could well be down to the tungsten's large size. I can't even get my head around a cube burning-in but let that pass for a minute. Bear in mind, also, that I had two cubes burning-in with only a week apart in their installation (U18 and X26 Pro). Also, I bonded both of mine with 2-part epoxy to create very close coupling. All these changes meant that it took its time before the sound settled down. Now that it has, the sum effect is awesome. I think, therefore, that the smaller cubes take less settling down and give of their benefits in a shorter time. However, if you're patient, the 20mm size gets there and the impact may well be greater. I am, in any case, extremely happy with the outcome. Iam "extremely happy" also Martin, cheers |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 31, 2023 19:29:39 GMT
The system has changed a little more, smaller changes but still perceptible. It's calmer, smoother, less harsh and yet still full of detail. I noticed today listening to The Civil Wars just how much soundstage and note decay there is. It's wonderful and yet another lesson in burn-in. I do believe this time around it is on track to beat my previous burn-in record with the gorgeous Sony SCD-1 SACD player that I had in my system a good few years ago and which took months to achieve its best.
However, on an absolute level the system's current performance leaves that older incarnation far, far behind.
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Morph
Rank: Duo
Posts: 62
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Post by Morph on Nov 2, 2023 14:54:38 GMT
Well I've enjoyed Martin's journey and finally curiosity has got to me.
Last month I ran the Tara Cascade noise burn in for 100 hours and was impressed with its effect on my system. Having had some good listening sessions I decided to apply the Cascade again last Saturday evening and it has run since then.
Until midday today that is, when I decided to open the long redundant BG7TBL clock and remove the 20mm Tungsten block I'd applied back in the day. Said Tungsten was then affixed to the R26's K2 with epoxy and the Cascade noise is running through the system again.
Couldn't stop there though and there is a Concentus clock cable on the way in a couple of weeks ( which will replace a HT Copper III clock cable ) and also another 20mm Tungsten cube which will be applied to the U18 DDC whenever it arrives from China.
I'm using the Leo Bodnar clock to the R26 and the LHY OCK 2 services the U18. A Tubulus Argentus I2S cable is between U18 and R26.
Looking forward to the outcome!
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Post by MartinT on Nov 2, 2023 15:34:55 GMT
Well I've enjoyed Martin's journey and finally curiosity has got to me. Wow - I'd call that more than curiosity! I can't fault you on your choices (!) and I would just reiterate that both the tungsten cubes and Tubulus cable need a LOT of burn-in, but then you know that already. I have been riveted by the music making these last few evenings since the burn-in effect has now plateau'd at a surprisingly high level of performance. The thing that stands out from all of this is something that Chris Martin mentioned in his review of the Usher Be-20 speakers (in The Absolute Sound) that led to my purchasing them 15 years ago. He called them 'musical comprehension machines' and never has that been more true than now. My comprehension and understanding of the music being played has stepped up a lot purely through differentiating between strands more clearly, even with densely complex or busy music. Add to that less harshness and fatigue and I find myself only reluctantly going to bed when I must. You have that to look forward to. Hope you enjoy it. |
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