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Post by MartinT on Apr 11, 2023 19:08:22 GMT
Tonight's progress: the depth is greatly improved and the stridency is reduced.
Overall, the Finisar now outperforms the HP SFPs in almost all parameters bar that slight remaining brightness. It absolutely excels in bass potency, dynamic clout and fine detail. On most music it's the clear leader and only sounds inferior on high female vocals and orchestral violin section. I'm hoping some more burn-in will help, it's so nearly perfect.
I think we are just crossing the threshold where it has become a keeper. Second time's the charm!
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Post by MartinT on Apr 13, 2023 13:45:06 GMT
The Cisco AOC has arrived. I'll be hooking that up later with great interest.
I'm still flabbergasted at how different SFP/fibre links sound, there seems to be no end to this lark. What I will do is settle on the keeper, the Finisar AOC having already won the first round against the HP/ipolex combo. Round two will decide between the already good Finisar and the unknown Cisco.
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Post by julesd68 on Apr 13, 2023 14:07:52 GMT
Our usual upgrade pattern of "traditional" components is changing now there are all these new elements to pay attention to. I don't think any of us will say "that's it, no more"! It's not in our DNA I think.
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Post by nicholas on Apr 13, 2023 14:54:20 GMT
The Cisco AOC has arrived. I'll be hooking that up later with great interest. I'm still flabbergasted at how different SFP/fibre links sound, there seems to be no end to this lark. What I will do is settle on the keeper, the Finisar AOC having already won the first round against the HP/ipolex combo. Round two will decide between the already good Finisar and the unknown Cisco. My Cisco AOC is due to arrive before the end of this week... will be interesting to compare notes as I've been pleased with the Finisar units. |
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 13, 2023 14:59:17 GMT
There are some of us who are waiting to see what transpires before buying similar....  |
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Post by orange55 on Apr 13, 2023 15:11:06 GMT
There are some of us who are waiting to see what transpires before buying similar.... Oh yes, add me to that list. |
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Post by MartinT on Apr 13, 2023 17:05:37 GMT
I got the Cisco AOC hooked up an hour ago, taking care to lay it along the same path as the Finisar and clipping the grounding boxes both ends to the edge of the cage. The Cisco was pulled used from working infrastructure, but was in a networking comms environment, so I guess it might be burned in but I'm going to keep it on Tara Labs overnight for the next week - not that it sounds like it needs it.
Oh my, this is going to be a really interesting comparison. On immediate listening, it's going to be pointless talking about the usual parameters, or dynamics, or soundstage. They are both highly capable.
However, the delivery is quite different. The Finisar is always revealing hidden detail, "listen to what I've excavated when you thought you knew this song". Huge detail and microdynamics, presented on a canvas with a remaining touch of upper-mid brightness. The Cisco is more "let me caress your ears with this gorgeous music", yet still digging deep but with less brightness and sounding, yes, lush. These are small differences but noticeable. I'm not going close to drawing conclusions until another weeks' time. It's going to be an enjoyable one, I think.
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Post by nicholas on Apr 13, 2023 20:52:22 GMT
As luck would have it my Cisco AOC cable also arrived today. Astonishing how two optical cables could present so differently. Must be electrical differences between the transceivers.
The upper lows and lower mids seem to have a bit more weight while the mids to highs possess a crystalline clarity. Nothing appears to have been lost with imaging and soundstage.
Early stages here so many hours between listening and Tara sessions remain. At any rate the Cisco appears to be off to a fine start.
Very nice to have inexpensive choices to compare.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 13, 2023 20:58:34 GMT
Astonishing how two optical cables could present so differently. I was listening tonight and kept thinking "it's a bit of fibre optic cable with transceivers both ends carrying numerical representations of audio. How can they sound so different?" As I ended my session, I began to get the impression of an even larger spacial canvas. However, I'm getting tired so I left the Cisco with Tara for the night(!) |
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Post by orange55 on Apr 14, 2023 8:53:50 GMT
Couldn’t help myself, especially at £15! Bet the person selling them can’t believe their luck they are selling so well.
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Post by MartinT on Apr 14, 2023 11:05:13 GMT
Couldn’t help myself, especially at £15! Good move - I don't think you're going to be disappointed. |
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Post by MartinT on Apr 14, 2023 19:02:51 GMT
The Cisco AOC after 24 hours is sounding smooth and inviting with an all-time low in sibilance. It consistently stops me from analysing and gets me back to enjoying the music.
It does the detail, the dynamics, the bass every bit as well as the Finisar, but it's more beguiling.
If it doesn't regress during the rest of the burn-in, I already know this is the winner.
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Post by nicholas on Apr 14, 2023 19:51:19 GMT
The Cisco AOC after 24 hours is sounding smooth and inviting with an all-time low in sibilance. It consistently stops me from analysing and gets me back to enjoying the music. It does the detail, the dynamics, the bass every bit as well as the Finisar, but it's more beguiling. If it doesn't regress during the rest of the burn-in, I already know this is the winner. Ditto... experiencing the same here just east of you. Retains everything that was good with the Finisar AOC but with more control and pop in the mid tones. I forgot how hot these transceivers get! |
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Post by MartinT on Apr 15, 2023 13:28:19 GMT
Listening again today, there is no sign of 'adverse burn-in' with the Cisco AOC, a feature of the Finisar AOC burn-in cycle. There are a few days left to go, but I'm already getting ready to tidy up the cable path and ensure that it all rests on supports.
The lack of sibilance remains noticeable, as is the calmness but detail and wide open soundstage of the upper-mid and lower-treble range. I love it!
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Post by MartinT on Apr 16, 2023 17:28:40 GMT
I finally have the sound I wanted from hi-res streaming music. I've written enough about the downside of chasing hi-res that you know my feelings about it by now: it's an absolute pig to get right and there will be several dead ends before you get there. The barrier to achieving hi-res digital sound with both insight and neutral tonal balance is noise in the digital chain. Again and again I've tracked down and reduced damaging noise from my system only to hit another brick wall before being able to proceed further. It's like an adventure game with infinite levels.
Just knowing the areas to address is only half the solution:
- Power quality
- Grounding
- galvanic isolation
- vibration control
- clocks
- cable quality
The easy part was selecting the essential core components: I'm only on my second DDC, second DAC and third streamer since I started. The early choices were not failures, they were stepping stones.
Getting it all setup and fine tuned took a while but, honestly, it's that final fibre optic link that pushed the system up to the level of sound I've heard only a few times in my life, and all at far higher cost than I could afford.
There is also the negativity from some quarters: people 'telling' me that digital can't match analogue reproduction, others saying that reclockers, cables, power supplies, grounding boxes, fuses, blah, blah, blah all cannot make a difference and I'm wasting my time. Streaming cannot sound as good as files was another one. On and on, but it was easier to deal with as I'm a stubborn git when I want to be, so I just ignored them and carried on.
My advice to anyone setting out to achieve high goals in building a digital system:
1. don't be dissuaded, just carry on
2. be patient, it's going to take some time
3. listen to advice only 50% of the time
4. try it for yourself, it's the only way to learn
5. be prepared to undo and go back a step
6. careful selection will get you further than throwing money at it
7. the rewards are definitely worth pursuing
I'm a happy bunny!
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Post by MikeMusic on Apr 16, 2023 17:52:29 GMT
I very much like the idea of someone else doing all the hard work and me copying where neccessary |
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Post by Tim on Apr 16, 2023 17:58:02 GMT
4. try it for yourself, it's the only way to learn ^^^^ That right there . . . 100% |
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Post by Clive on Apr 16, 2023 18:57:30 GMT
Martin, which media converter are you plugging the Cisco AOC into? Are they 5V or 9V?
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Post by MartinT on Apr 16, 2023 19:08:31 GMT
Martin, which media converter are you plugging the Cisco AOC into? Are they 5V or 9V? Clive, I'm not using stand-alone media converters. I have an etherREGEN at the sending end and a Sonore Signature Rendu SE at the receiving end. They both have SFP cages. Indeed, the flagship Sonore has only a cage for receiving streams. |
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Post by nicholas on Apr 16, 2023 19:09:56 GMT
Brilliant post that matches my experience to a T. Finding myself at a level of satisfaction that causes me to not want to monkey with the system further for fear of going backward. |
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