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Post by Chris on May 26, 2016 18:56:22 GMT
Just been offered a pair of these for £350 - probably could get them for £300. Love the looks but can't REALLY justify them. Has anyone got any opinions/useful info on these speakers?
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 19:20:34 GMT
I haven't heard them I'm afraid. My only experience is a very brief blast of the TLS80s. The "blast" wasn't loud enough to do them justice or tell me much, except that they lacked speed. Price seems ok though.
I've heard people rave about IMF and I have a mate who thinks they are totally useless. I guess that might make them a bit of a "marmite" experience.
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Post by Chris on May 26, 2016 19:40:07 GMT
Hmmm,yeah. Seems to be the same story ont net. Think I'll avoid them tbh,
Just a bit too much and not really justifiable!
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Post by MartinT on May 26, 2016 19:47:34 GMT
I quite liked some of the IMF designs but they could be accused of being slow, not that we knew that at the time. I went down another route and owned a pair of Cambridge R40s for a good while.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 20:00:59 GMT
I had some R50s for about 6 months. I really liked them, but sold them on when I moved. They didn't do a thing wrong for me and were really satisfying to listen to for long periods.
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Post by jandl100 on May 26, 2016 20:14:53 GMT
I've heard TLS50 in a friend's 2nd system. Not sure if they were mk2.
IMHO they were better than his much more expensive Opera speakers in his main system.
I've heard larger IMFs and they are quite slow - but the TLS50 was quite lively. I liked them a lot. Open, neutral, focused, lively. For £300 sounds like a good buy to me.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 20:40:09 GMT
I didn't know the value of the ones I got at the time. I saw an ad in a local supermarket that just said "record player £10, amplifier £10 and speakers £20. I turned up to find a Dual turntable (not one of the cheaper ones), a Radford solid state amp with a copper fascia and the Cambridges. I left the turntable but took the other items for the princely sum of £30. The amp was OK but the speakers were a real bargain.
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Post by dsjr on May 30, 2016 22:43:10 GMT
Slow means fulsome (edit - as in 'underdamped') bass extension well below 100hz (around 30Hz in TLS50'sf any age). Fast bass usually means none at all in my book, but others will disagree.
IMF's and similar larger TDL models (not so much the cheap RTL types though) MUST have a tightly drawn, highly damped power house to make them go properly in my experience and of course, what you gain below 60Hz is lost at 120Hz or so, by a dip in the response.
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Post by John on May 31, 2016 4:34:00 GMT
Bass extension has little to do with speed both Martin and my system go down below 30 and no one would describe either system as slow. But agree that when system lack speed the bass sounds bloated. Having an amp with high damping factor helps
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 7:23:55 GMT
If must agree that slowness isn't simply down to fulsone bass. Likewise speed isn't just the property of speakers without bass. I've heard plenty small slow speakers and enough big fast ones to understand this.
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Post by MartinT on May 31, 2016 7:30:19 GMT
Indeed, big JBLs tend to have great extension and no-one would accuse them of being slow.
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Post by jandl100 on May 31, 2016 8:32:14 GMT
Whilst you can certainly get fast deep bass, the Flat Earth companies often used the trick of making kit sound bass light so it sounded faster.
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Post by speedysteve on May 31, 2016 12:00:22 GMT
Whilst you can certainly get fast deep bass, the Flat Earth companies often used the trick of making kit sound bass light so it sounded faster. Yeah, just take along som good bass music like Toccata and Fugue in d minor, som bassy Yello, perhaps som Lorde - Royals and Tennis court, choice Zero7, Drottningholm baroque ensemble Four Seasons Winter, some choice Band of Skulls, White Stripes, Pixies Hey, ACDC The Jack, Flash by Joan as police woman, Invisible beauty of my flower - Leni-Kalle Taipale trio etc, etc, and be prepared to either laugh or be very disappointed:) |
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Post by pre65 on May 31, 2016 13:43:26 GMT
Surely, really low bass has such a long wavelength that normal listening positions cannot do it justice ?
And organ bass is not as thunderous as one might imagine, or not from the church organs I've had the pleasure of listening to.
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Post by speedysteve on May 31, 2016 16:12:01 GMT
Surely, really low bass has such a long wavelength that normal listening positions cannot do it justice ?
And organ bass is not as thunderous as one might imagine, or not from the church organs I've had the pleasure of listening to. 20Hz is 17m, 20KHz 17mm. In room you get half, quarter etc wave lengths See www.acousticfields.com/wavelengths-in-our-rooms/For a good explanation. Room modes I love em:) With non dsp setups you pretty much have to roll off the bass (as most manufacturers of speakers do for cost, WAF etc), to not excite the modes or have some serious acoustic damping - Martin to chip in:) So you end up never getting anything like sub 30 or even 40Hz at anything near 0dB. More like -3, -6 or worse dB. Hence not much impact. You might be lucky and put such a speaker in a small room and have some room mode work in your favour to get some boom but it's usually a slab or blob of bass and not at all that tuneful, fast, wondrous thing it can be. The Lionel Rogg Bach recordings used the Metzer & Solne Orgelbau, mechanical action, electro-pneumatic 67stop organ. Probably not your average church jobbie. I'd love to hear it one day! The Four seasons Drottningholm baroque ensemble I mentioned recorded in a church using the organ for bass. That is recorded giving very deep tones on the right bass setup. You need 0dB at 20-25Hz in room, to really appreciated it. Lorde just mixes in some electro bass:) Some Boz Scaggs tracks are great too - Dig Desire for example. |
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Post by MartinT on May 31, 2016 19:05:04 GMT
Mine are port stuffed to tame the bass and even so have a small peak meaning that at roll-off they are still only -3dB or so at 30Hz. Plenty of impact even on the 16Hz fundamental of a 64' organ pedal, albeit subdued compared with a real one.
By the way, the Albert Hall organ is pretty damn thunderous, having heard it play the Saint-Saens Symphony No. 3 a couple of times.
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Post by speedysteve on Jun 1, 2016 17:13:52 GMT
I though you had bass traps too Martin?
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Post by MartinT on Jun 1, 2016 18:30:09 GMT
I have four TubeTraps and three PicturePanels, none of which work particularly in the deep bass. I do have one SubTrap which needs to be placed in the location of greatest boom but probably isn't in my current setup. That can help, but the stuffed ports help the most.
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Post by jandl100 on Jun 1, 2016 20:40:06 GMT
I've taken a less rigorous scientific approach than Martin's carefully judged absorbent material in his speakers' ports - I've stuffed mine with an old sock each.  |
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Post by speedysteve on Jun 1, 2016 20:50:12 GMT
Back in the eighties there was a fad of stuffing your ports with a bundle of drinking straws, cut to suitable length.
Anyone tried this. I did but preferred without:)
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