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Post by alaska on Apr 7, 2016 11:56:01 GMT
What I like about TAS is its simplicity and honesty. It encourages good chat about hi-fi and music, offers helpful advice, doesn’t look like a shabby shop-front and is generally moderated with a light touch. All members appear to have equal status and the nasty clique-ridden childishness so prevalent elsewhere is not allowed. Brilliant.
I appreciate how tough it must be to run a forum, and respect the way the management here moderate. It was brave to allow the owners of competing forums to join, and their ultimate bans were understandable and deserved IMHO.
The decision to facilitate the loan scheme was also admirable, especially when the first vendor on board – NVA – have a long history of slagging TAS off on its own forum. The scheme was great in my view, and I personally used it twice. Such a shame that no other vendor came on board.
It was therefore truly shocking and disappointing when the loan scheme was axed, and especially so in the way it was done, with no warning, discussion or satisfactory explanation. I get that it was not good for TAS to be seen to be favouring NVA, but cancelling the whole scheme straight away, citing behind the scenes pressure from unknown sources, and then refusing to discuss it appears to go completely against the TAS philosophy.
Equally sad is that the thread attempting to discuss the end of the loan scheme has elicited no meaningful input from the TAS management, nor has any of the (many?) scheme’s detractors had the courage to explain their views. The one who has popped up, has explained nothing, and is a long-time anti-NVA which may only serve to confirm what many are suspecting here. That thread now resembles something that would fit well on AOS/PFM or the Wam.
What I liked about TAS was its simplicity and honesty.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 12:24:36 GMT
+1
Well put!
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Post by MartinT on Apr 7, 2016 12:28:07 GMT
What you perhaps don't realise is that we spent a LOT of time discussing the issues behind the scenes. The lack of uptake of the loan scheme by other vendors was both surprising and disappointing to us.
In all honesty, we exhausted all avenues after appealing to a number of vendors directly. We worded our announcement very carefully so that it was obvious (we thought) that this was a decision we made very reluctantly.
I cannot see how discussing it in forum was in any way going to sway us from the looming realisation that we could not hold to our ethos while supporting only one vendor's loan scheme. We used the word 'untenable' as exactly the way we had started to feel about it. This is no poor reflection on NVA and indeed two of us in the team bought items after loaning them. Ultimately, we need to remain unbiased and to be seen to remain unbiased.
Ultimately, it had to be our decision. I am surprised to read that you think we have given no meaningful input: the statement itself and our responses have surely given you the information you needed? We could not have been more honest and transparent about it. The only thing we will not release is details of who said what behind the scenes. They were contained in PMs and must remain private, as the name suggests.
I don't know what else to say except that we took the initiative to inaugurate the loan scheme, we ran a successful pilot, we tried to gain take up and we failed. In the same vein, we've discontinued the scheme as it's our ethos and our personal ethics, therefore it's our decision.
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Post by Tim on Apr 7, 2016 13:03:42 GMT
Very eloquently put Martin and I am frankly amazed by some of the negative posts written about the subject. Some people need to get out more or just chill out and enjoy the music. TAS wete brave enough to try something for the benefit of its members, it worked for awile but with only one vendor it became clearly (to me anyway) untenable, so the scheme was closed. That's really rather simple, isn't it? Who out of the moaners has suffered any real or financial loss? If you had, fair enough, bitch about it, if you haven't, have the good grace to accept the moderators decision and move on . . . life's far too short. If that's not enough, as Tarrantino would say, join a sewing circle, plenty of bitching goes on there  |
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Post by ChrisB on Apr 7, 2016 13:39:37 GMT
.....and if you want to borrow gear, there is still a means by which to do that. And I'm sure we would all be interested to hear about and discuss the process and outcome.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 15:46:45 GMT
I supported the loan scheme, I used the loans scheme, I bought from the loan scheme and I am glad it's still continuing via PM.
I agree and regret there has been no input from any detractors and malcontents but I disagree that there has been no meaningful input into it's closure by admin. They have explained their actions and expressed their own regrets. I personally don't think another thread about it is helpful or interesting,
If anyone is unhappy, then blame the people who wanted the loan scheme stopped. But please remember, it hasn't stopped. It's just not via public thread. Therefore aren't the detractors the losers? Having had an opportunity to put their products out there and gain favourable press and sales, they have declined, People can judge them accordingly. Reading the many comments of frustration, people apparently already are judging them.
Me? I will contnue to enjoy it here and be grateful that the admin team had the foresight to try it. I will also PM Dave if and when there is another loan item I am curious about. I will also be more likely to spend my cash with makers and sellers who do right by me by letting me borrow kit. They too will have my gratitude.
if you also want to see more companies loaning, then vote with your feet and your wallet. See if that persuades others to revise their thoughts on the scheme.
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Post by alaska on Apr 7, 2016 16:04:44 GMT
Ok - I am ready to move on now - just one last point :
What totally wound me up was this comment "A forum isn't any good without its members, and we found ourselves in a position where we either listened to the complaints or held fast and lost a lot of members and involvement. "
People are 100% entitled to be unhappy about anything. Surely the way to complain on a forum is to put your case openly and share it with the other members ? I am just disappointed that all of this went on in secret, and have lost all respect for "a lot of members" who didn't have the decency to share their concerns with the rest of us. I respect that there must have been a serious backlash for you to have canned the loan scheme. Just a shame that only two of the naysayers felt it appropriate to speak up openly.
Oh well....back to the music.
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Post by Sovereign on Apr 7, 2016 16:16:15 GMT
I supported the loan scheme, I used the loans scheme, I bought from the loan scheme and I am glad it's still continuing via PM. I agree and regret there has been no input from any detractors and malcontents but I disagree that there has been no meaningful input into it's closure by admin. They have explained their actions and expressed their own regrets. I personally don't think another thread about it is helpful or interesting, If anyone is unhappy, then blame the people who wanted the loan scheme stopped. But please remember, it hasn't stopped. It's just not via public thread. Therefore aren't the detractors the losers? Having had an opportunity to put their products out there and gain favourable press and sales, they have declined, People can judge them accordingly. Reading the many comments of frustration, people apparently already are judging them. Me? I will contnue to enjoy it here and be grateful that the admin team had the foresight to try it. I will also PM Dave if and when there is another loan item I am curious about. I will also be more likely to spend my cash with makers and sellers who do right by me by letting me borrow kit. They too will have my gratitude. if you also want to see more companies loaning, then vote with your feet and your wallet. See if that persuades others to revise their thoughts on the scheme. Very well put indeed, couldn't agree more. I think we need to take a step back and evaluate the situation with balance and perspective. All forums have their faults and ways of doing things that may rub us up the wrong way. I have been part of six forums and I have left three because of stupid bitching,, TAS is very well balanced and the mods seem pretty level headed to me. The loan scheme was great and maybe it ended a bit abruptly, but I'm sure there are was plenty of thought and consideration that went on behind the scenes. I'm sure the mods are doing the best they can along with their usual daily life commitments. We all cock up here and there, so let's give each other a bit of grace and crack on with what is a good forum. |
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Post by alaska on Apr 10, 2016 23:08:44 GMT
Could be worse I suppose....it seems on certain forums you are not even allowed to mention that an NVA Loan scheme even exists!
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