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Post by brian2957 on Mar 18, 2016 7:37:55 GMT
Guys , like you I have adopted a totally different approach regarding mains upgrades to my system , and my views on this are the polar opposite to those of Greg . I do respect his views on this though as they have come about from his own experience over the years . I understand that Greg sometimes puts his views across in a forceful manner , however I see nothing rude or nasty in his last post . I met Greg in Bristol a couple of years ago and he is a true gent . We did have a conversation on mains etc. over the two days we were there , but there was no rudeness at all . In fact we both had a good laugh about our '' entrenched '' views on this . I quite enjoy discussions in this area of music reproduction and I'm open to new ideas all the time  |
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Post by MikeMusic on Mar 18, 2016 8:10:53 GMT
The main point of this thread is to get everyone to try an unswitched socket.
It's cheap, it works very well for me and many others and it allows the kit to allow more music through
In the various systems in different houses I have tried the difference has ranged from nice, yes worth having, on the lower end to staggering with more expensive kit.
I have found the recent mods have taken the kit and music to a higher level than I would have expected. My guess is that it is the cumulative effect of all the little things -like the unswitched socket at the front end of it all.
Take some or all of these little things away and I'm sure the system will sound 'off'.
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Post by brian2957 on Mar 18, 2016 8:22:10 GMT
Totally agree Mike . Replacing a switched socket with an unswitched one will provide a very cost effective upgrade in SQ . Usual caveat applies though , if you're not sure what you're doing here get an electrician .
This simple upgrade will provide improvements which cannot be achieved any other way .
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Post by ChrisB on Mar 18, 2016 8:30:04 GMT
OK, so has anyone tried this test of changing to an unswitched socket in a more rigid manner in order to compare like with like - i.e. by changing your old switched socket for a new switched socket in order to then compare that to a new unswitched socket?
How much of the improvement you are hearing is derived from using a new and uncorroded item and how much is from eliminating the switch?
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Post by brian2957 on Mar 18, 2016 8:38:38 GMT
That's an interesting question Chris . I'm afraid I went straight to unswitched . The switched socket which I replaced though was indeed a bit grotty so your question is a valid one .
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Post by ChrisB on Mar 18, 2016 8:43:35 GMT
I suspect that's how it's always done Brian and I think someone should try it my way!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2016 8:47:49 GMT
I don't have a single switched socket in my house. It's perfectly normal here.
I am not sure I could buy a switched socket if I wanted to, so would not be able to do the comparison between the two.
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Post by MartinT on Mar 18, 2016 11:49:00 GMT
OK, so has anyone tried this test of changing to an unswitched socket in a more rigid manner in order to compare like with like I did when I first installed it - an unswitched Missing Link double socket replaced a switched MK. I could hear the difference. |
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Post by MikeMusic on Mar 18, 2016 13:35:22 GMT
I've had the odd time where I moved stuff around and replaced a used switched with a used unswitched.
MK for MK and yes the difference was quite noticeable
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2016 18:49:53 GMT
Chris Frankland (Flat Earth Response) preferred un-switched 15A round pins and on test he was right. Also much easer to Gold plate (Cu,Ni,Au)but no fuse cool I love smoke he he.  |
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Post by Greg on Mar 18, 2016 22:10:29 GMT
Well Greg having seen some of your remarks on other subjects I have come to the conclusion you love a good argument or just to stir it up or just plain deaf. I may take a different view than others on some matters, but that does not mean I am looking to stir things up or generate any arguement. If others want to consider me plain deaf, I have no problem with that. It's my ears and I do my own listening.
Shame as all the other 1000,s of users of these connections over 40yrs could hear the improvement and Inca Tech never paid for review with advertising or incentive so all the good reviews according to you must also be crap. Please re-read what I wrote. Although the gold plated plug made no difference in my system, I acknowledged that I paid no attention to any other aspect of my mains supply, so maybe that was very much the reason why.
As to going to Owston my health would not allow me to go that far. And that particular forum a few year ago when I tried to talk and get feedback on a cable I designed just banned me, maybe because like Wigwam polite conversation is not the thing. I understand you not be able to make Owston. It's a shame because from what I know of you, you'd have an awfully lot of fun. On being banned from Audio-Talk, there you must be mistaken. The owner who I expect you know, Nick Gorham has never banned a single member in the entire life of the forum based on his own principles on how to manage such a facility. Certainly there have been difficult members in the past including some who have been banned here, but they have all left on their own accord realising for themselves their influence and approach was inconsequential and a waste of their own time."Oh well. Each to their own, but for certain I'm not in the business of polishing a turd, hence my approach of invest in your main components and tweak with cables and connectors for whatever need thereafter." But you just have polished a turd , so are you interested in music, sound , techy, or just being rude and nasty. Maybe I need to be clearer. We all know people who have bought an amplifier for £500 and then spent over £1000 on cables, at least I do. This is what I mean by 'polishing a turd'. What I was trying to say was the cost of connectors be they mains supply, interconnects or speaker cables should be proportional to the price and performance of the main components within the system. It is a madness to spend more on cabling than the main source, amplification and speakers, yet there are people out there who do this.
I never intended to offend you and if you perceived it that way, I am sorry. No offence was intended and personally I regard you in very high esteem, being in my view, one of the proper guru's in the industry. |
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Post by Greg on Mar 18, 2016 22:27:29 GMT
Greg, it's not surprising (although quite rude) that you take this approach to mains supply if you have never heard what a difference it can make. There are enough of us here who pay attention to these things to give you pause for thought, at least. If it sounds good now, it could sound even better if you took care of mains quality, regardless of what they do at Owston. Well, if you stop and think for a moment and consider my recent postings here on mains supply issues, you will clearly understand that I am exactly currently paying attention to my mains supply and all this as a result of the initial loan of the BMU. I have explained my own approach to this in my reply to Colin. My point about the use of crap cabling at Owsten is, because the kit is so well designed and constructed, albeit DIY, even with mains cable for speaker source still allows the brilliance of sound reproduction to come through, which reinforces my view that excessive spending on cabling in disproportion to the cost of the main components is in effect, 'polishing a turd'.
However, my main issue is that you seem hell bent on being aggressive to other members of late. Please could you reel it in and understand that others may have a different point of view? No aggression is intended and as said, I tend to write in a robust style which if others find unlikable, I am sorry. I have tried to tone this down but inevitably, I return to sort. I completely understand others have a different point of view and I have no issue with that. Discussion forums probably wouldn't exist without these differences.
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Post by Greg on Mar 18, 2016 22:29:38 GMT
Brian, you are a gent. Thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2016 22:39:32 GMT
Have you ever considered relaunching the gold plated mains plugs and sockets, Colin? You have the pedigree and I could see them being popular on forums and EBay.
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Post by brian2957 on Mar 18, 2016 22:44:19 GMT
Only telling it how it is Greg , I did enjoy our conversations in Bristol and can and do see your point of view although it's fundamentally different from mine . It's all food for thought mate |
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Post by Greg on Mar 18, 2016 22:52:09 GMT
OK, so has anyone tried this test of changing to an unswitched socket in a more rigid manner in order to compare like with like - i.e. by changing your old switched socket for a new switched socket in order to then compare that to a new unswitched socket? How much of the improvement you are hearing is derived from using a new and uncorroded item and how much is from eliminating the switch? You've hit the nail on the head. When I tried it, my hi-fi was supplied from a ring main that was over 25 years old. The sockets had been previously upgraded to more modern switched items but these were at least ten years old. The new unswitched socket did bring an improvement and at the time, I put it down to there being no switch in the circuit. However, old mains wiring is subject to deterioration and with old sockets not attended to corrosion and the loosening of connections can have a significant influence. My house has recently been rewired with a dedicated over spec spur for my hi-fi. I have two twin sockets for hi-fi supply. One is switched and the other not. Everything is new and connections are tight. I cannot hear any difference between supply from the switched socket compared with that from the unswitched one. My personal conclusion is that the age and quality of the wiring and sockets is the issue and not whether they are switched or not. Just my three p'worth.......YMMV |
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Post by MartinT on Mar 19, 2016 8:34:20 GMT
Thank you, Greg.
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Post by jazzbones on Mar 19, 2016 14:40:34 GMT
Hi MikeMusic "While you're at it think about a Missing Link socket designed to be good for hifi for around £35 If you're really keen then there's the reassuringly expensive Furutech at around £200 Our very own Colin Wonfor was the one who first made hi-fi sockets with his Inca-tech ones"
Yep guilty as charged, now a tip a normal MK socket is easy to take apart, to Gold plate find a local plater and first plate with 1 micron of Copper on the brass and the Cu, then 5 microns of Nickel, then 5 - 10 Microns of Gold. The Cu makes a good base for the hard Ni and the Ni stops the Gold migrating into the Cu. so it will stay gleaming and bright even after 40 years in the potting compound mine did. Now the plugs,the problem is the PVC insulators and plastic/rubber case, you need to be able to dismantle the plug I used Delta they were a dream to use and also flash Gold the fuses in a tumbler plater.The PVC insulator will be eaten by the Hot Gold Cyanide solution (do not use this at home death occurs in 25 -40sec and it hurts) use a licenced plater. In 1982 the plugs cost 50p and £2.00 to plate, sockets were £2.50 and £4.00 to plate the fuses were about 50p to plate now with the price of Gold who can tell. Do have fun. Col
I moved to my present house 33 years ago and all sockets were unswitched except for the cooker. I have a separate spur feed for my Hi Fi with only the main fuse box being switched. If I want to kill electric feed from the socket I have to pull the mains plug out (carefully). |
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Post by MartinT on Mar 19, 2016 17:23:40 GMT
If I want to kill electric feed from the socket I have to pull the mains plug out (carefully). Me too, that only happens when I go on holiday (but the Sky box remains connected to record the F1). |
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Post by tony on Mar 20, 2016 16:26:17 GMT
We have had numerous bake offs with cables/plugs/fuses/bmu/power conditioners/mains blocks, up this neck of the woods..all good fun and very educational.
It really is a case of trying different stuff and hearing what works in your system.
I think I would employ a spark for mains sockets though!!!!
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