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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2016 14:23:05 GMT
I mentioned I had bought some boxes for a DIY project. They look the same as my Cubette boxes and I must say thanks to RD for his ingenuity in seeing the potential for hifi "repurposing". Without it, I wouldn't have seen the potential in a million years.
I want this to be a fun learning experience, not a carbon copy of the Cubettes. I've already got a pair of those and frankly for the money Richard charges they are a give-away, so I'd be daft to try and make a pair myself. I really like the bass unit, so I will likely use the same one and treat it in the "Doc Mod" fashion, as again this is about learning and experimenting.
Im not sure which tweeter to use, but I may try something a little different here. Some learning needed on crossovers (well, the tweeter but) but not beyond me. I do like planar and ribbon tweeters but I realise integrating such things may be more difficult or even unsuccessful.
the cabinets are now beginning to interest me. RD uses steel plate fixed with Bison Kit to stiffen. I fancy trying something lighter that will still add stiffness. I still intend to attach inside in the same way as the Doc Mods. My three thoughts are carbon fibre, Fibreglass sheet/resin and also aerolam. I just wondered what others think, especially if they have experience.
Pic of the cube box to follow. It's made of box-wood as far as I can tell.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2016 14:30:32 GMT
For some reason, Photobucket won't let me upload today but here is a generic pic I lifted from the net recently: Mine appear to be the same although this is not the supplier I used.
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Post by John on Feb 27, 2016 15:48:02 GMT
I am looking forward to seeing how this develops
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Post by MartinT on Feb 27, 2016 16:16:37 GMT
Aluminium plate - lighter and non-magnetic? I don't know what a Bison Kit is but two-part glue bonding (taking care not to leave air traps) should be good.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2016 16:28:32 GMT
I did wonder aboutf Aluminium but it's only 1/3 of the stiffness of steel. It's also heavier than the other options. This is Bison Kit, which are recommend in the Doc Mods. www.bison.net/en/products/642-contact-adhesives/product/9-bison-kit/ I guess a suitable glue will depend on what I choose as a stiffening material. I'm really keen on trying Carbon Fibre but there's no way I'm cutting it myself unless it's the soft weave stuff that you coat with resin. The hard sheets can be lethal. My reason for going down the low weight route is that I always wanted to try Russ Andrews speakers due to their Torlyte cabinets. I've also tried the higher mass approach already, so it's nice to see if there's another way to succeed. The boxes as supplied are ridiculously light. They are already like Torlyte. If I can keep the lightness but add stiffness, I will be very happy.
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Post by Mr Whippy on Feb 27, 2016 20:06:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2016 20:18:45 GMT
Funnily enough, I had a watch on the top pair, but I hadn't seen the other ones. They look a bit like a pair I saw recently made into super tweeters. Every speaker with a ribbon or planar tweeter has been cleaner and more extended to me. It's just too tempting to ignore when I'm making my own speakers. Could be an abomination, but I can alwatys keep them for another project or make them into super tweeters. Power handling on them is usually really low compared to conventional tweeters, but I lack the knowledge to work out if that will be a problem. More reading needed methinks.
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Post by zippy on Feb 28, 2016 8:55:18 GMT
I did wonder aboutf Aluminium but it's only 1/3 of the stiffness of steel. It's also heavier than the other options. This is Bison Kit, which are recommend in the Doc Mods. www.bison.net/en/products/642-contact-adhesives/product/9-bison-kit/ I guess a suitable glue will depend on what I choose as a stiffening material. I'm really keen on trying Carbon Fibre but there's no way I'm cutting it myself unless it's the soft weave stuff that you coat with resin. The hard sheets can be lethal. My reason for going down the low weight route is that I always wanted to try Russ Andrews speakers due to their Torlyte cabinets. I've also tried the higher mass approach already, so it's nice to see if there's another way to succeed. The boxes as supplied are ridiculously light. They are already like Torlyte. If I can keep the lightness but add stiffness, I will be very happy. That glue seems to be rubber-based. Wouldn't that introduce an element of flexibility which might be undesirable, especially if you want, as you say, to introduce stiffness..
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Post by dsjr on Feb 28, 2016 12:25:11 GMT
I've been almost forcibly told that STEEL PLATE is what's needed, as its the MASS as much as anything else. Bison Kit is a fine adhesive which goes off quite hard and 'gummy' (for want of a better word)and I assure you it doesn't 'creep' once set.
As for tweeters, if you wish to do it the 'Doc Mod' way, then a wide-band dome, cone or ring radiator may give better results than an iffy ribbon - and before you pile down my throat, ribbons apparently distort more, don't radiate evenly all round and in my experience of a good few now, NEVER seem to properly integrate with a cone or dome driver properly at all but ANY frequency, as all you can hear is the tweeter leading everything on. Just my experiences obviously... I can't remember who makes the ring-radiators as used by Tekton Design in some of their larger models (it could be SB Acoustics, who have done a good dome tweeter that AVI use very low down - around 2k or less I believe), but having recently heard again a metal-dome tweeter worked down too low (to go with a metal cone bass driver that takes off at 5k so needs a stiff crossover at just over 1.2k), I'd beg you to use a tweeter than can take a simple cap crossover without ringing or other nasties.
In the 'Cube style' design, especially with these boxes, the steel plating is coated with doping I think, so not a hard reflective internal space. the Visaton tweeter of the bigger models is a good one of its type and certainly not cheap and after the filter cap. is well padded down. I was stunned by these later models as they don't sound uber-sharp-n-shiny as I remember the original models being. Even a 12 ohm approx. resistor in series, the tweeters sound very sweet and totally non-invasive...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2016 19:01:51 GMT
Cheers, Dave. I trust Richard's judgement and ears enough to stick with steel if he reckons it's the way to go. The Cubette cabinets are very thin so maybe using something like carbon fibre was a bit optimistic. I think the Cubette bass unit is a stunner and really well made, so changing for another would seem pointless. I'll ponder tweeters as I'd like to do something different from the Cubettes. As I said, it's pointless building my own Cubettes when I a,ready own a pair and could buy more of them from someone who actually knows what they are doing and charges peanuts for them I hear what you say about ribbons and maybe you're right. In my experience, some just don't integrate too well. Neat Petite 2s were never as stellar as I thought they should be. I have really liked a couple of designs though: The SD1 and the Apogee Centaur. However neither design is a standard two way. The SD1 is a three way, which is obviously easier to integrate with a ribbon tweeter at a higher frequency. Apogees have a mid/treble ribbon which integrates with the cone bass unit. Maybe I will have to try a different conventional tweeter. If I do, I may go for two tweeters per box with one firing outwards. I liked that in the older Cube 1s, although Richard reckoned I'd been lucky in that they weren't difficult to site on my old room. Lots to ponder. At least steel,plate is cheap, easy to source and a doddle to work with.
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Post by dsjr on Feb 28, 2016 19:28:43 GMT
If you do the twin tweeter route, you could wire them in series to keep impedance high and maybe reduce the padding resistor a bit (guesswork I'm afraid)...
I think a lightweight cabinet would possibly need to be a honeycomb sandwich type, as I really think the boxes you have would be too thin to leave or just bitumen damp. I know it's old BBC 'stuff,' but for their needs, they found a thickness of ply that seemed to work and making it thicker had no effect or even made it worse. The steel plates goes a hundred times more and it should take a lot of energy to get the panels moving at all.
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Post by Mr Whippy on Feb 28, 2016 22:45:47 GMT
Is there any secret in what the bass/mid driver is?
I'm curious about mounting a pair of drivers to stands and having the boxes decoupled.
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Post by dsjr on Feb 28, 2016 23:32:18 GMT
Look up 5.25" Kevlar cone and you'll get one or two alternatives.
There are a few related units around and about and I honestly don't know which one is used, but this is similar in its raw state and its rather substantial. Doping has been discussed on HFS in the past and this is key to not needing a traditional crossover..
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2016 2:17:56 GMT
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Post by John on Feb 29, 2016 5:15:36 GMT
Thanks for sharing
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Post by MartinT on Feb 29, 2016 6:41:48 GMT
Doping has been discussed on HFS in the past and this is key to not needing a traditional crossover.. So, for my understanding, the correct doping allows the bass driver to be driven direct while only the tweeter has a simple crossover (strictly speaking, a filter)?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2016 8:00:57 GMT
Yes, but a mechanical one rather than an electronic one. As I understand it, Richard Dunn believes all filters are bad but this is less bad. I have always preferred Royds in-doped, but I'm less sensitive to colouration than most, and can tolerate a bit of waywardness in return for "life". As I'm fitting undoped drivers first, I can suck it and see with no doping, a little doping and more as required.
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Post by ChrisB on Feb 29, 2016 8:12:50 GMT
I should be surprised if it is Box (Buxus sempervirens) as that is very dense, expensive and rarely available in large dimensions.
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Post by MartinT on Feb 29, 2016 8:37:24 GMT
Yes, but a mechanical one rather than an electronic one Yes, I realise that. I've always associated doping with those heavily-coned BBC type speakers with slow, coloured midrange. Obviously, there is a lot more to it and the ability to create a natural mechanical low-pass filter using doping is admirable.
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Post by ChrisB on Feb 29, 2016 8:46:15 GMT
The approach with the bass driver doping is going to result in a 'tuned-for-singularity-ears' unit, as it will be very much suck it and see, I'd think: - Slap some doping on. - Let it dry. - Try them. - Repeat until they sound right.
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