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Post by MikeMusic on Feb 26, 2016 15:50:54 GMT
From my little test it seems a DAC.
Pioneer PD-S703
Beresford Caiman modded
Chord CPM2600 Integrated
Isobariks
Sitting on RDC 2 cones on 2 stage RDC bases (not Isobariks)
Listen
Swap in the RDC 4 cones under the Pioneer
Better, sharper, more detail. Nice.
Swap back and put the RDC 4s under the Chord
Oh, better still, subtle improvement
Swap back and put the RDC 4s under the Caiman
Subtly better still
Not what I expected. Assumed the Pioneer would benefit most.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2016 18:17:38 GMT
I'm not knocking the Betesford here, but it's not heavily built and hasn't got any sort of vibration damping. The Pioneer has, so that might be a factor. Interesting topic, but I can't really add much because I tend to use 1 box players. The CD player is definitely more affected by supports than amps though IMO.
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Post by MartinT on Feb 26, 2016 22:17:54 GMT
SACD player for me, by far. However, the Caiman-II does respond well. Andrew has it - it's light and needs to be on good supports with a weight on top. Sounds a lot better that way.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2016 23:45:50 GMT
Without wishing to be controversial, is there any merit in using supports under speaker cable?
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Post by ChrisB on Feb 26, 2016 23:53:25 GMT
No.
But they are surely vital under mains cables!
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Post by MartinT on Feb 27, 2016 8:36:31 GMT
I don't use supports under cables. Can't comment further as I've never tried it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2016 9:28:45 GMT
There's probably more to be gained by separating out interconnects, speaker cable and mains cable. I wouldn't be averse to trying cable supports sometime but I've never done so this far. If I did, I would be making my own rather than forking out for them.
i do like the recognition here that damping on top of items can make a difference too. It's not just about what's under things. Playing certain amps with the lid off has sounded better to me, so it suggests casework can be a factor. Why not look at treating that too?
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Post by MikeMusic on Feb 27, 2016 12:28:02 GMT
Supports are a new aspect for me.
I had a lot of different supports lying around for months before I tried them.
When I finally did I was stunned.
I remember Martin coming round for a session comparing various and we were amazed at the differences.
My test yesterday was a few minutes only so don't hold me to it !
For weight the DAC is the lightest - but with a granite placement on top
Pioneer next, also granite on top
Chord amp by far the heaviest with some granite coaters placed to mis the air vents.
All sitting on a Mana rack so the supports sitting on glass on spikes, rack spiked into concrete floor
Just before packing up for the day I put the DAC back on the original RDC and bases
Thin sounding and to my horror, slightly 'nasty' sound.
hate else do we have to discover. Yes cables, casework and likely others
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Post by AlanS on Feb 27, 2016 13:36:59 GMT
Mike
What sort of level are you playing your system at to hear these differences?
Reason I ask is that last year I tried a few supports that forum members were enthusing about under my phono stage, DAC but heard nothing different. It may be my poor powers of recollection and comparison of sound but nothing struck me then.
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Post by MikeMusic on Feb 27, 2016 14:54:14 GMT
Not that loud. Think the Chord was showing 5 on the display - goes up to 40 or so I think.
I'm at the apex of the golden triangle from the speakers so best place to pick up changes.
This was the *difference* between supports.
Massive change if I take them all away and dread to think what they would be like stacked or on the nearby MDF cupboard
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Post by sq225917 on Feb 27, 2016 15:31:27 GMT
I wonder which part of the Beresford is so badly designed/specified that mechanical vibration can be coupled into the electrical output?
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Post by John on Feb 27, 2016 15:55:35 GMT
I suggest the DAC is made to a very tight budget that gives great sound per pound as many of us have found out, but paying attention to things like good power and support has added benefits in terms of pushing up SQ
Of course Stan could charge a lot more money to improve power and isolation but think that would put off a lot of potential buyers
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Post by MartinT on Feb 27, 2016 16:20:59 GMT
I wonder which part of the Beresford is so badly designed/specified that mechanical vibration can be coupled into the electrical output? I think that's slightly disingenuous. As John says, it's perfectly well designed but down to a price. Most likely the u-shaped top rattles a little, which is why I put a weight on it. The reality is that ALL components seem to respond to careful support placement. |
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Post by sq225917 on Feb 27, 2016 19:04:13 GMT
You miss my point. I don't believe that the output of Stan's dac is in any way affected by reasonable amounts of environmental noise or vibration.
I don't doubt it can benefit from a better, more expensive power supply though.
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Post by MikeMusic on Feb 27, 2016 21:50:26 GMT
This one has an Ankaka battery
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Post by Chris on Mar 2, 2016 9:00:28 GMT
I use an old Atacama soundstage platform thing and that just goes under the amp. Seems to work well enough. I don't use the SACD player enough to justify supports. I do use little rubber squares under speakers as well but that's it.
I'm of the opinion isolation is well worth doing but not going mad over.
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Post by MikeMusic on Mar 2, 2016 9:36:31 GMT
A few months back I would have agreed, how can it be so different. This was before I did my first tests.
Some of the supports are like a major upgrade - and the kit was already on top of Mana racks
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