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Post by John on Mar 11, 2016 19:30:56 GMT
For me trust does not have to even enter it. You can make up your own views good or bad depending on your own experience.
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Post by julesd68 on Mar 11, 2016 22:22:51 GMT
How would I trust the reviews coming out of the loan scheme?
Simple, I look at the calibre of the people doing the reviewing.
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Post by jazzbones on Mar 12, 2016 14:04:48 GMT
Taking kit on loan or buying it with a 30 day return is essentially the same. It just seems *so* different. Guess the only difference is trusting that the vendor will really, honestly take it back. Also the risk of, say scratching it, what then ? .... what then? All hell breaks loose!  . |
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Post by MikeMusic on Mar 12, 2016 14:41:59 GMT
As this is Guidelines for Vendors.... They have to be nice about it  |
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Post by AlanS on Mar 12, 2016 14:43:49 GMT
Taking kit on loan or buying it with a 30 day return is essentially the same. It just seems *so* different. Guess the only difference is trusting that the vendor will really, honestly take it back. Also the risk of, say scratching it, what then ? It is unfortunate the one of the founding members and administrator has to make a comment differing from MartinT and others. Some people clearly dislike NVA offering a trial/loan scheme and come out with all sorts of comments to undermine that scheme. So you don't like it, leave it for those who do. |
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Post by MikeMusic on Mar 12, 2016 14:53:09 GMT
Not what I'm saying at all.
In my mind loan is the same as a 30 day trial.
Difference is the trial you put money down and then get it back if you don't keep.
I think the loans are a good idea and I want to see it extended further to bring in many more vendors.
I also encourage any that offer money back guarantees like Stan, Tony, MRCU, Russ Andrews and others
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Post by jazzbones on Mar 12, 2016 14:56:17 GMT
Just one point, Ron: I did review the NVA BMU and TIS products and so have several other members. The BMU was not for me as my P10 regenerator outperformed it, but the TIS was a superb interconnect so I did buy one. Both products were reviewed positively but I wouldn't have hesitated to write negatively if I didn't think them up to much. My point: I bought the TIS at full list price, so the implication that an 'insider' discount exists is entirely false. Of course, a forum membership discount is up to the vendor to advertise and I know some vendors have done just this in the past. Martin, I sit up and take notice of your reviewing, both here and on a previous forum, as they have a certain validity that I look for and are far removed from the enthusiast amateur. However, I asked two questions in my post dd Mar 11 2016, which you have only partially responded to here, these are: 1. Where are ALL the reviews (in relation/ ratio to equipment loaned) ?
2. What is the time length/period of the dsjr/NVA loan (ie Days, weeks, months) ?
As mentioned in my post, the RA time limit is 60 days! What is the answers to question No1 & No2? Lastly, why do people on forums think all audio reviewers are shonky? For one, I trust Adam Smith's (Beobloke), audio journalist, product opinion and findings but realise that it is up to me to find out for myself by either contacting the manufacturer and/or dealer to arrange a trial of product after negotiating a price and the possibility of return. Paying up front proves to the vendor that I am a genuine customer; knowing I can obtain a no quibble refund if not satisfied is my insurance. My latest purchase was an outboard MC/MM phonostage using this method. Walking through life believing that 'insider' deals and discounts don't exist is to walk the walk of a vulnerable innocent. |
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Post by jazzbones on Mar 12, 2016 15:09:02 GMT
Not what I'm saying at all. In my mind loan is the same as a 30 day trial. Difference is the trial you put money down and then get it back if you don't keep. I think the loans are a good idea and I want to see it extended further to bring in many more vendors. I also encourage any that offer money back guarantees like Stan, Tony, MRCU, Russ Andrews and others I agree with sentence No2. As for sentence No3, any returned items cannot be sold as 'brand new, out of the sealed box' thus the vendor sustains a financial loss from the product having been used. Secondly, business people want to streamline their operations NOT take on the aggro of chasing someone whose got something they haven't paid for. Also, there is the time waster like those who view houses for sale with no intention of buying but just for something to do. |
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Post by MartinT on Mar 12, 2016 15:09:21 GMT
Oh, I'm sure that 'insider' deals occur, not to mention the 'inadvertent' non-return of review equipment. However, this would be mostly within the realm of the magazines or bigger forums where more review power lies. To answer your questions:
1. I don't know, I am not the keeper of a list of where loan equipment has gone.
2. For NVA, I kept the equipment in both cases for just over a week. For other loans, it has been mostly between 1-2 weeks.
Jules said above, very wisely, that he looks at the calibre of the reviewer when deciding on what to believe. So do I.
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Post by John on Mar 13, 2016 6:57:53 GMT
Greg I would love you to create a separate thread about the BMU you got.
As Martin said as forum we want to be fair so we took a different stance. What we would like to see is other vendors taking a similar chance. For us as a forum it creates good debate and allows people to hear equipment and hopefully improve the persons knowledge about what is possible in terms of sq
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Post by Slinger on Mar 13, 2016 15:48:21 GMT
I might as well chime in with my point of view, seeing as the vendors that use TAS (and for whom this thread was intended to be a guide) seem to be staying away from this thread in droves... If I buy something with a money back guarantee I've done just that, I've bought it. The money back part of the deal is just in case it doesn't actually meet my expectations, a sort of "safety net" if you will. On the other hand, if I take something on loan it's because I haven't made my mind up to buy it yet and the loan will help me do that, or not. The two schemes are entirely different in my book. Put simply with a money back guarantee I feel that I've entered into a contract with the vendor. With a loan scheme I haven't. Right, I'll let you lot get back to bashing the one vendor who has poked his head above the parapet now.  |
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Post by DaveC on Mar 13, 2016 15:55:13 GMT
I might as well chime in with my point of view, seeing as the vendors that use TAS (and for whom this thread was intended to be a guide) seem to be staying away from this thread in droves... Indeed, only two comments see : theaudiostandard.net/post/60443theaudiostandard.net/post/60454Dealers have a right not to do a loan scheme. But as the two posts above, they might feel disenfranchised if they don't. To the outside world TAS might look like a one-trick-pony when it comes to vendors ? |
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Post by dsjr on Mar 13, 2016 16:46:10 GMT
Most good dealers in the past did do a loan scheme, if only for a few days, as well as having a no quibble exchange system afterwards. Yes, it was a bit more 'personal' as we usually did a basic dem first and let the client take the final couple of bits home if necessary, but it WAS basically a loan scheme.
OK, the NVA loan scheme is less 'personal,' but that's just how RD wants it - you can see what happens if he gets too involved. It's the PRODUCTS that speak for themselves and he most definitely doesn't want an ex 'salesman' such as myself bigging them up.
Sure, having a 'loan' thread is a sort-of forum shop-window, but you don't have to visit there, do you? People here don't tend to rant and complain about it (apart from one or two usual suspects who don't offer this service themselves) and I've done my utmost not to spam or shill the brand in other threads.
AOS was spoiled for a while by having some shopkeepers posting hundreds of individual new threads for each used item they had for sale. Since only two or three NVA items have so far proved to be of any interest here and with their own threads, I hope this isn't seen as excessive.
Dave, if you offered one or two tempting tasty morsels for loan out of your stock, I'm sure it could work well for you, as you're almost as remote from inland civilisation as I am. I'm frankly amazed how my local Linn/Naim/Rega/whateverthelatestbuzzwordis dealer does any business at all, as none of it comes from locals he once told me. NVA's loan scheme doesn't really affect you does it, as I thought your gear was by and large more expensive?
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Post by ChrisB on Mar 15, 2016 14:15:53 GMT
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