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Post by ChrisB on May 30, 2015 11:36:19 GMT
You may just be right!
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Post by aurender on May 30, 2015 13:24:16 GMT
Ok, let's bring the speaker side up to date. Here is the system as it sits today. rock ports replaced by YG Anat Reference Studio speakers with some mods. At the same time external master clock replaced by BVA 10mHz custom clock based on Oscilloquartz 8607. Clock currently sitting on the floor but as soon as I get round to assembling the rest of the Harmonic Resolution Stand, it will be better integrated. I should cover separately issues such as clocking and also the evolution of the other parts of the system as well as the detailed mods on the speakers. how does it sound? Well the resolving power is amazing. Details are being retrieved that most systems will just hide completely but all done without harshness or digital edge. some more upgrades on the way. DCS Vivaldi currently on order and will be delivered as soon as I've sorted out rest of flood damage repairs and can spend time on installing it.
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Post by aurender on May 30, 2015 13:33:48 GMT
First mod I did to YG Anat speakers was fitting custom hires Vertex links between the bi wiring terminals on the mid/high speaker sections. they are currently just dangling in space and I really need to experiment with a better way of supporting them. for some parts of my system, the Vertex products work well. Speaker cabling seems the most obvious and this may be due to their ability to damp out mechanical vibration in the cables. The cost of the speaker cables meant I needed a less expensive way of dealing with getting signal to both sets of binding posts than by buying a second set of Vertex cables. The original links were WBT solid silver bridges so I persuaded vertex to make custom short links fitted with the Vertex damping technology to replace them. Seem to work well and the difference, whilst not huge, is noticeable.
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Post by MartinT on May 30, 2015 13:56:12 GMT
I'm really amazed that you have no turntable in a system like that. I'm not damning CD, I love both sources. It's more the availability of much material that is unobtainable on CD, and also the pleasure that a good sounding LP can bring.
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Post by aurender on May 30, 2015 14:24:32 GMT
I understand.
Two reasons
First: I'm a lazy individual and filing Lps and faffing about with getting the best from those fragile records is just not interesting. Note that, although there's a cd transport, it's not actually been used for serious listening in over two years. I had 5000 Lps; I've currently got the best part of 10000 CDs, all of which are in packing cases in an air conditioned storage unit.
Secondly, whilst good op system sounds very fine, I believe that the reason cd and digital generally, doesn't sound as good is due to digital clock errors. That's an area I've spent time working on both as a Hifi enthusiast and also as someone who is involved professionally in the area for some pretty special applications.my digital clock experimentation in Hifi has included playing with a number of rubidium clocks as well as using gps clocking as an additional external reference.
Whilst doing that, the system might sound better, or sometimes worse, but was always recognisable as a good digital system. Last year I evaluated a clock based on a BVA crystal oscillator which is a refinement of an OCXO where the cut is different and parts of the crystal are also used for the suspension to minimise conduction and mechanical effects. This results in short term accuracy in the 1 part in 10-14 range which is typically over 100 times more accurate than clocks found in most high end cd systems.
the effect of this clock change was to remove that difference we associate with the digital versus analogue comparison.
The he improvement in listening quality is not subtle. Of course there are poor transfers and my system will not make them sound any better but decent source material does sound very good indeed.
so that's my reason for not including vinyl.
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Post by aurender on May 30, 2015 16:04:45 GMT
Martin Just to add to the above: much of my listening is classical solo instrumental which is served very well by my ripped cd collection and hit rack plus Qobus and Tidal.
I also have a passion for exploring world music for which Qobus is terrific, particularly with North African music.
I'm not aware of anything that I could only get on vinyl although I'm sure there must be something.
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Post by MartinT on May 30, 2015 16:50:16 GMT
Fair points, and I'm still playing with ideas for a superior clock for both my Ayre C-5xe and Technics turntable.
Although I now have streaming capability and it sounds very good, I have no interest in ripping any of my collection. In fact, I like browsing through records and CDs physically and I often just see something I want to play that way.
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Post by aurender on May 30, 2015 21:13:11 GMT
I suppose an additional practical reason is that having put together a very expensive state of the art digital replay system, the cost of a matching quality vinyl front end could amount to a very sizeable amount of change. I've recently ordered an upgrade DCS Vivaldi system and there are financial limits to these things.
I don't deny that if I came across a top of the range Goldmund turntable like I used to have, I would be tempted but the temptation would be temporary.
Maybe when we get round to building the music room we have planning consent for, I might just revisit the issue along with scratching the itch for a couple of Revox G 36 vintage reel to reel machines.
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Post by MikeMusic on May 31, 2015 10:57:34 GMT
The Ebay effect Too rare to be known by most of us The right people didn't spot them in that windows of a few days Helps to keep the price down if "collect only" I've picked up stuff for daft, low prices and seen other stuff escalate to madness I'd certainly put that purchase down as my best eBay buy ever! I guess the other issue was the seller stressing he didn't know whether they were working or not so key issue for me was to ensure he would take them back if they were dead on arrival. And from a nice guy that would take them back !
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Post by MikeMusic on May 31, 2015 11:00:37 GMT
I'm lazy too.
Much easier to bung on a CD than play vinyl, just that vinyl gives me more in the current set up so it stsys
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Post by aurender on May 31, 2015 13:00:13 GMT
Bunging on a cd involves finding it in the first place: far too much like hard work!
Store em all on a top quality storage and replay device and add streaming. Listen to what you want when you want. Consign both black and silver disks to the storage unit until their collect ability means they are worth shoving on EBay.
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Post by aurender on May 31, 2015 13:11:41 GMT
In bringing the development of the speaker side of my system up to current time, I totally forgot the addition of the separate subwoofer. The Anat studio has two cabinets, the bottom one containing sub with a built in solid state amp. It goes down quite low but I felt music needed a bit more extension right at the bottom end. having heard Dave Wilson's earlier subwoofer offerings, I'd found them very good with tight clean bass fast enough to integrate properly in music rather than being just there for earthquake effects in home cinema. the sub comes with a very capable separate control unit which you'll see centre top in the pic of the system. Problem is it needs a suitable amp, Davr's recommendation being to purchase an additional single channel amp of the same make and type as the main amp. Even at secondhand prices, a single big Halcro was not a sensible choice for me so I searched around and found a decent Sensidyne remote controlled 1000w power amp which seems to do the job well. Crossover to the sub is set at 30hz so really only contributing right at the very bottom. effect is interesting. Sub not noticeable until you switch it off then music loses a certain solidity. If we progress to new music room, I may buy another and try out a pair.
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Post by MartinT on May 31, 2015 16:54:26 GMT
Store em all on a top quality storage and replay device and add streaming. Listen to what you want when you want. Consign both black and silver disks to the storage unit until their collect ability means they are worth shoving on EBay. Of course, you would have to delete all your rips if you decided to sell the discs.
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Post by MartinT on May 31, 2015 17:03:04 GMT
effect is interesting. Sub not noticeable until you switch it off then music loses a certain solidity. If we progress to new music room, I may buy another and try out a pair. I had a REL Studio II sub (their top model) a few years ago, to do exactly as you have noticed with my then JM Lab Mezzo Utopias. When I upgraded them to the current Usher Be-20s, they didn't need a sub so I sold it. They measure flat down to below 20Hz.
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Post by aurender on May 31, 2015 17:23:47 GMT
YG offer a "professional" upgrade that provides an additional bass unit for each channel but the Wilson sub seems an attractive practical alternative. Getting flat for any speaker down to below 20hz is incredibly room dependant. In a smallish room, the edge tones play havoc at lower frequencies and will typically cause great bumps and suck outs in the frequency response. The reason to go for the Wilson was the facility to tune the base response to try and deal with such issues.
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Post by aurender on May 31, 2015 17:26:42 GMT
Store em all on a top quality storage and replay device and add streaming. Listen to what you want when you want. Consign both black and silver disks to the storage unit until their collect ability means they are worth shoving on EBay. Of course, you would have to delete all your rips if you decided to sell the discs. I had thought about that. Since streaming of FLAC files gives such good results there is little need to rely on the ripped copies. The only stored music would be the hires downloaded albums.
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Post by aurender on May 31, 2015 17:36:23 GMT
Martin, the Usher speakers you have do, according to the reviews, seem to produce exceptional smooth bass extension: not flat below 20Hz exactly but according to spec, within 3db at 22Hz.
I haven't heard them in the flesh but definitely sound worth a listen and look very competitively priced against many comparable U.S. Speakers. Have you compared them to the Rockport offerings which are my benchmark at that sort of price level?
just checked the quoted frequency response of the YG speakers:
Deviation: ±1 dB in the audible band Usable output extends from below 20 Hz to above 40 kHz
again not helpful because doesn't consider effects of room on bottom end. For me, some kind of treatment, both electrical and acoustical is essential to flatten out the 20Hz - 30Hz region
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Post by MartinT on May 31, 2015 21:44:44 GMT
Sadly I've never heard the Rockports. I listened to the Wilson Sophia? (which I do like, but cost about twice as much) as well as the big B&Ws and a few others. What I love about the Ushers is the exceptional midrange created by that beryllium driver. I should have bought the smaller Be-10 for my current room but I always knew I would have a larger listening room one day so I went for the bigger Be-20. Room nodes look horrible on my plots but sound fine now that I have treated the room and stuffed both the ports on each speaker. There is a big peak centred at around 45Hz and then it dips back down. Funnily enough, my test disc's lowest 1/3 octave pink noise test tone is at 21Hz and it's flat compared with the midrange and ignoring the hump. I have no trouble reproducing the lovely large Ruffatis and other organs I like to listen to on occasion. See the blue plot here.
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Post by aurender on May 31, 2015 22:44:07 GMT
The Wilson Sophia always seemed to me one of the more listenable Wilson speakers. It is possibly more musical than the Sasha. Although I must say one of the best systems I ever heard was using Wilson Alexandrias driven by Spectral amplification with a DCS front end all in a very expensive custom listening room.
The YG costs about halfway between the Sasha and the Alexandria at around $75k although at this level price comparisons are somewhat meaningless.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2015 15:52:24 GMT
I'm really amazed that you have no turntable in a system like that. I'm not damning CD, I love both sources. It's more the availability of much material that is unobtainable on CD, and also the pleasure that a good sounding LP can bring. Yep cos the worlds best Hi-Fi are Vinyl based imho
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