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Post by Tim on Jun 25, 2014 9:50:51 GMT
As I continue on with my task of archiving and scanning my CD collection, I just came across this which was purchased on release in 1988 for the princely sum of £11.99 - that's more than I pay for pretty much all my current single release albums. I also have LPs dating back from around 1976/78 with price tags on of £7.99 and more.  It's something I often ponder, but I think we don't pay enough for music and it really gets my goat when some people think its free . . . if the artist wants to give it away (as some do), then great, but that's another topic. With iTunes taking 30% from music sales and putting nothing back in, Amazon almost giving stuff away often at less than a fiver and Spotify paying I think $0.007 per play are we selling our musicians and songwriters short, I think so? |
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Post by MartinT on Jun 25, 2014 10:01:33 GMT
It's market forces unfortunately, Tim. There is a fine balance between the prices that people will pay and the point at which piracy will reach epidemic proportions. Yes, lots of people (especially young teenagers) think that copying files is fine and don't equate it with stealing, while others sell their collection of CDs not realising that their rips are tied to the originals and must be deleted. I agree that musicians should be paid more for their work, but people simply won't!
What a strange world we live in where many think that a tenner is too much to pay for an album of good music, but it's quite ok to line the pockets of hugely overpaid and pampered thugs slackers and call it football.
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Post by MikeMusic on Jun 25, 2014 12:33:35 GMT
I have always been a cheapskate and when much younger used to tape music on reel to reel from radio and LPs.
If I liked it a lot I bought the album. I have some music on tape that is impossible to find although YouTube is digging up all sorts now. Music I wasn't so keen on was wiped and never heard again.
I also bought a lot of albums I had to have in my possesion, paying as much as 21 shillings for them new, the artist/s getting a cut there. That must equate to a lot of dough from 1960s and 70s.
Now I'm back filling and buying loads of CDs for little money, as low as 1 penny + post. Quite a few LPs too.
I would not try and buy so much if there was a real price to pay.
Some albums I have on tape, LP and CD. No real point in listening to the tapes anymore.
The market value of a 2nd hand CD is very little and this is the key.
The normal consumers will buy it, use it, get rid of it - fine I'm ready to receive.
Compare the price of music to a lot of things and it really is dirt cheap, but that's the perceived value.
Footballers are paid obscene amounts of money, nurses get no where near enough. This is our world
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Post by John on Jun 25, 2014 14:10:39 GMT
I do think in the past we used to be overcharged and perhaps now under charged
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Post by MikeMusic on Jun 25, 2014 14:33:41 GMT
Yes. 21 shillings was a real amount of money then.
Think my first job was not well paid at around £6-7 a week so a days wages
1 penny on Amazon I often think, "why not ?"
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Post by Dave on Jul 11, 2014 17:56:12 GMT
I use Spotify a lot for discovering music that is new to me. Any given album which is of sufficiently high standard I will purchase online (I usually end up on Amazon more often than not). In such cases the artist/s receive royalties from my listening time on Spotify as well as through my purchase of the physical media. Win win...
Do I think artists get paid enough? Does anyone these days?
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Post by julesd68 on Jul 11, 2014 18:23:43 GMT
What a strange world we live in where many think that a tenner is too much to pay for an album of good music, but it's quite ok to line the pockets of hugely overpaid and pampered thugs slackers and call it football. Entirely agreed ... But as I've been struggling recently to find second-hand copies of a few lps in the kind of condition I like, I've been looking at some of the new 180g releases and the price of some of these takes the mick for me. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 19:59:49 GMT
I swore i will never buy another CD or Re-issue record as long as i live.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 20:32:05 GMT
I swore i will never buy another CD or Re-issue record as long as i live. Unfortunately the odd title that still isn't available on vinyl means I buy the odd CD but have gone several years in the past without buying them. The price and quality of certain original titles does mean that in some cases a reissue has to do. The trick with reissues is to research the source and mastering used for the title. Original Lp's have that certain something if you can get a decent condition one. Modern printers perhaps with the exception of Stoughton in the USA cannot reproduce the quality of vintage sleeves. Recently have become frustrated with Ebay and Discogs so now buy little used vinyl. New vinyl quality can be almost as frustrating due to flaws and warps. I think Cd has reached it's proper level having been grossly overpriced through the 80s and 90s. It's taken falling sales and Amazon to bring this about. In the 80s it was far cheaper to stick with LP with the benefit IMO of better sound. Now vinyl has become more popular it is far more expensive than CD. However most new vinyl is not overpriced if you take into account inflation. There is no way you can argue physical media is too cheap. Even CDs have gone up a bit since the channel island VAT scam was stopped. Also note that downloads are often more money than the CD. What's that about? |
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Post by terrybooth on Jul 11, 2014 21:22:28 GMT
(First LP - The Monkees 32/6d)
As I remember, music was free - it came out of Radio Caroline and Radio 1. A couple of crocodile clips on the back of the speaker terminals on the radiogram and voila I could use the reel to reel tape to hang on to it.
In lots of places up and down the country, live music is still free. I was lucky enough to see Chantel McGregor and her band for the cost of a bit of effort.
Get yourself on Bandcamp - listen to lost of stuff for nothing. Question is (and this is a serious question) why do we pay for music.
As far as I know, the first time 'the public' paid for a copy of music (rather than to see a performance) came with the advent of printed sheet music. Now I'm not sure if it was word of mouth or the Music Hall or the Radio or what that created the demand for this, but it was a nice little earner for some. This is see as the beginnings of 'music marketing'.
(I'm skipping over other mechanical music reproduction - music boxes to player pianos because there were either for the rich or a trinket)
Along came the Victorians and music recording was invented. This pretty much, as I see it, fed into the existing printed music market: as well as producing and selling printed music, recorded music was produced and sold.
Now, something interesting happened. Previously music had moved with people: so Africans took their music to the Americas and that gave birth to a whole host of musical genre - Blues and Jazz in particular - but now some people cottoned on (pun not intended) to the idea that the music could be literally transported to different audiences much more easily (and, not doubt in the case of Jazz and Blues, one didn't have to come into contact with black people). But there was lots more shifting of music around - for example, the Library of Congress sponsored (if I remember correctly) Folkways recording. To be sure, in the main, it was popular music that was moving around in greater quantities, but the market also generated the spread of other stuff - and musicians, having access to that, could create other stuff - I'm sure you can all fill in the gaps here.
But, in amongst all that, the music industry grew - and that's essentially what the bulk of the LPs and CDs have come to support - the Sycos of this world. An awful long way from music. To be sure, along the way, the need for novelty has allowed quite a lot of people to make a bit of a living - but even Frank Zappa needed a recording contract to get his stuff out there because that's how the market worked.
Now, things have changed. It's now possible for musicians to self promote and self produce and make a living out of it.So, from Nick Harper to Serious Sam Barrett via the Haggis Horns and Preston Reed, Sisters are doing it for themselves (no, hang on, that didn't quite work, did it).
So, for instance, get yourself on Bandcamp (or Quboz or Amazon or HDTracks or ...) and have a listen for nothing. If you like it then you can buy it (or buy the right to stream it). There's much more opportunity now fo discover stuff rather than having the A&R men discover it for you.
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Post by Tim on Jul 11, 2014 22:07:01 GMT
So, for instance, get yourself on Bandcamp (or Quboz or Amazon or HDTracks or ...) and have a listen for nothing. If you like it then you can buy it (or buy the right to stream it). There's much more opportunity now fo discover stuff rather than having the A&R men discover it for you. The only snag with this though, is that you have to enjoy searching for and discovering new music, which seems not to be the drive for a lot of audio enthusiasts and then you have to be happy playing digital media, which again puts a lot of the same people off, especially if they don't have a system geared for it. Some folk insist on owning something physical too, which presents another barrier. I spend hours every week discovering, playing and buying new stuff . . . but I suspect I would be in a minority here? But you are right, there has never been a better time to enjoy music with live venues popping up all over the place, the internet and streaming services. As for 'new' music, this could be anything from Neil Young to Winter Mountain (who?), if its new to you then its new music. We are awash with it and I love it - I also love that artists can do it on their own now by harnessing social media and sites like Kickstarter and Bandcamp. Marillion have done an amazing job since parting with EMI and became fan funding pioneers, all via their website. I still think its too cheap though, but I'm kind of used to being in a minority group now  |
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 12, 2014 14:54:11 GMT
I use Spotify a lot for discovering music that is new to me. Any given album which is of sufficiently high standard I will purchase online (I usually end up on Amazon more often than not). In such cases the artist/s receive royalties from my listening time on Spotify as well as through my purchase of the physical media. Win win... Do I think artists get paid enough? Does anyone these days? You should see what some of the 'professionals' get. 'Insurance job' comes to mind |
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 12, 2014 14:56:01 GMT
I swore i will never buy another CD or Re-issue record as long as i live. Also note that downloads are often more money than the CD. What's that about? Making money out of us punters |
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Post by MikeMusic on Jul 12, 2014 14:58:23 GMT
So, for instance, get yourself on Bandcamp (or Quboz or Amazon or HDTracks or ...) and have a listen for nothing. If you like it then you can buy it (or buy the right to stream it). There's much more opportunity now fo discover stuff rather than having the A&R men discover it for you. I spend hours every week discovering, playing and buying new stuff . . . but I suspect I would be in a minority here? Me too. Following rabbits down holes and finding gems |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 15:26:28 GMT
Lucky me has no intention in finding about new music.. O the joys of being locked in the past  |
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Post by julesd68 on Jul 12, 2014 15:47:43 GMT
Lucky me has no intention in finding about new music.. O the joys of being locked in the past I think the only new music I have bought in the last few years was 'The Lion's Roar' by First Aid Kit ... Great music but rubbish recording quality IMO ...  |
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Post by MartinT on Jul 13, 2014 13:18:35 GMT
If you must buy a remastered CD, look for Bernie Grundmann as the mastering engineer. He is superb (e.g. Jennifer Warnes' Famous Blue Raincoat 20th Anniversary, far better than the original release).
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Post by Tim on Jul 13, 2014 19:58:46 GMT
I think the only new music I have bought in the last few years was 'The Lion's Roar' by First Aid Kit ... Is that a typo Jules - 'the last few years' . . . ? surely you mean the last few days? #scratcheshead |
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Post by julesd68 on Jul 14, 2014 0:24:52 GMT
No typo Tim!
I only really buy 'vintage' classical and 70's rock nowadays as that's what I enjoy. I'm sure there might be some new music out there I might like but I don't really have the inclination to seek it out right now. Who knows, that might change...
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Post by Tim on Jul 15, 2014 19:14:36 GMT
No typo Tim! I only really buy 'vintage' classical and 70's rock nowadays as that's what I enjoy. I'm sure there might be some new music out there I might like but I don't really have the inclination to seek it out right now. Who knows, that might change... Ah, that makes sense Jules, different interpretation of 'new' - any music I buy which is new to me (however old) is 'new' music in my mad head |
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