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Post by MartinT on May 6, 2015 6:09:09 GMT
LOL - what exactly constitutes servicing a class D amp? Not even old enough to need a recap.
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Post by jandl100 on May 6, 2015 6:55:05 GMT
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Post by speedysteve on May 6, 2015 6:55:41 GMT
My suggestion for Steve would be a high bandwidth 100khz+ class d around 100Wrms to start with. I'm interested in the Crown XLS 1500 suggestion. I can't see a bandwidth spec or anything around 100KHz for it though? www.crownaudio.com/en/products/xls-1500Another consideration / feature is that I could be able to feed 1 volume controlled output from Najda and then chain them with the output / link feature - Only useful if each amp has signal delay for time alignment and of course X/O capability. The Behrigner Inuke has. Trawling the Crown XLS drivecore series blurb - it appears not! The XTi series does though (quoted as 50ms range) - bit more money of course! Background to this is: The Tapped horn subs are something like 9ms or so behind the rest of the system, due to horn length etc. So they are zero timed and the rest of my channels are delayed in DSP to be in alignment. Alignment is done by measuring a signal (first peak positive) through each driver and delaying until they are aligned. Of course perfect alignment is only in one spot - where the mic is (ideal listening spot). But the coherency is vastly improved anywhere in the listening zone I have found. As Najda (my DSP ADC / Pre / DAC X/O), is only 4 channel I am currently using the upper channel feed - which is open (no upper x/o slope) feeding the Raal Ribbon Tweeters on their own amp via a passive X/O. Due to the short wave length at upper and tweeter frequencies, physical alignment is possible - it is fractions of a mm movement though to get it spot on. With the bass amps only needing one feed I could put the tweeter on it's own Najda output and then physically move the tweeter forward / inline for less soundwave reflections... ho hum! Glad I bought the Inuke DSP version now, but it is the mid bass amp that needs to the delay of course... At sub frequencies alignment would require something like 10m+ physical difference:)
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Post by speedysteve on May 6, 2015 7:02:02 GMT
Thanks! They do come up then Would be great - if it had signal delay feature. See long explanation above. I think it is the XTI1000 series and up I am after! The 1002 def has it. Not sure about the cheaper 1000 model yet. More blurb reading...
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Post by speedysteve on May 6, 2015 7:06:32 GMT
Yes the Crown Xti 1000 has it but!
"Delay: For signal alignment of driver; 5 mS total delay"
So, Xti 1002 and up then...
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Post by MartinT on May 6, 2015 7:28:36 GMT
I'd love to know whether a Crown would sort your upper bass nicely. Only one way to find out...
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 10:49:05 GMT
Class 'd' as usually cited for bass duties as they have a high power output for small psu size, neat and small design, very efficient around 82% + Duty cycle etc.
These are usually Chinese made, banged out by the thousands and do a great job of hanging onto bass drivers, big damping factors etc. Plenty of dynamics too.
Look at one under a decent scope or spectrum analyzer and you will 'see' a large amount of harsh sitting ontop of the sine wave form being sampled, though this is usually out of pass band and you will not hear it! (again depends on design parameters)
Most class 'd's tend top to have a switching frequency around 1/2 meg and conveniently tie these in with the switching point of the SMPS so you obtain an cancelling out effect. (Theoretically)
I find moving the switching frequency at which the amplifier 'works' much higher up generates far better texture and a more nature style of sound compared to these usual suspects they give, power, drive, detail, and clean sound. Though this does generate other issues that need addressing.
A simple low pass filter say 80Khz to 120Khz depending on your zobel network and feedback arrangements is all that's needed to bring the signal back into the analogue domain.
There are always exceptions to the rule.
For example some people feel the Devialet's first sliding 15/20W into class 'a' helps remove that 'switching amp' sound for myself it just means it takes a little longer to go digital hash lol though other opinions are valid.
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Post by MartinT on May 6, 2015 11:12:14 GMT
Similarly the Chord's sliding bias arrangement means that practically I'm listening to class A a lot of the time except for the big peaks, but the amp never gets more than warm. The PSU runs at about 75kHz (so very short PSU reservoir recharge times) and of course the output is not switching.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 16:32:44 GMT
Watch out for the Crown amps - most of them (if not all) are fan cooled - even the Class D ones. I cannot tell you how wonderful it is to have convection-cooled amps that are dead silent, after years of fan noise from Class A Krells, Audio Research valved power amps and (yup) a Crown to drive the sub.
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Post by John on May 6, 2015 18:16:58 GMT
Should be able to remove the fan as will not be pushing the amp what so ever
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Post by pre65 on May 6, 2015 18:28:16 GMT
Or drop the voltage to the fan and slow it down, so it still cools a bit but is less noisy.
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Post by John on May 6, 2015 18:34:42 GMT
Yes a friend did that worked well
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 18:53:26 GMT
Your not really going to tax a crown with 110dB horns I believe Still feel the Crown is way OTT for your big horns, dynamic yes for sure, wall of sound quite possibly, but really a Caribbean gentleman speaker sound Steve? Had you pegged for more subtlety, have you tried a Sugden Class 'a' power amplifier at all, they have the texture and richness just not the speed or drive, however 110 efficiency would cure that and then some! What about using one of Colin's designs if I recall correctly they are around 20 watts, seriously would be more than plenty they are very fluid sounding too.
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Post by speedysteve on May 6, 2015 19:24:33 GMT
Maybe - they can't do the X/O, bit of room corr and the time delay though...
That idea has really got me thinking.
BTW, in case you don't read my speaker blog... The Behringer Inuke NU 1000 arrived and is plumbed in and sounds just a great as John's did on Sunday... So that is one amp down - one more to go.
I'm not really into the Caribbean effect. I like accurate deep bass. To be able to hear say Lionel Rogg's Toccata and Fugue D minor so it really rocks the room, or the texture and impact of the bass on say Boz Scaggs Dig - Desire etc etc. Good thumping bass helps on stuff like White Stripes / Pixies / My Morning Jacket too.
Most of that effect is on the tapped / subs. The mid bass is much more subtle - I feel I need to test more to understand what is needed. Just now I have the euphoria of a nice step forward to bask in:)
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Post by MartinT on May 7, 2015 6:07:15 GMT
I used to use the trick of wiring 12V cooling fans in a PC with 5V to make them run virtually silently but still move the air around.
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Post by jandl100 on May 8, 2015 7:19:44 GMT
The fan in my Crown XLS1500 was quiet enough not to be an issue at all for me. Didn't even realise it was there to start with, it's way down in the background of life-noise even in a quiet music room.
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Post by John on May 11, 2015 8:01:23 GMT
Any updates Steve
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Post by speedysteve on May 13, 2015 7:40:46 GMT
Only that I saw my old Nad 3020 and though... I know I'll try that on the mid bass. It always worked much better on my mission 700's in the workshop than any T-amp. The JBL 2220 15" drivers in the mid bass are of the same vintage:)
My 3020 has a lab input which means it bypasses all the pre side and is a power amp in that mode.
Well it played and sounded ok, but nothing special. It probably needs recapping at the very least though.
I put the TP-60 back on and preferred it.
I'm still enjoying the NU-1000 improvement on sub duty TBH! When that newness has worn off a bit I'll think about mid bass amps some more.
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Post by Eduardo Wobblechops on May 13, 2015 9:16:49 GMT
Just bought an NU3000 to try on my OB's.
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Post by speedysteve on May 13, 2015 16:53:53 GMT
should we Nuke them real good!
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