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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2015 6:33:41 GMT
I know a few people on here run SL1200 turntables, so I thought that this may be of interest to you.
As Pinkie was coming down to Toulouse for a week, I managed to persuade him to bring me a Technics Strata platter and Funks latest bearing called "Spin." He managed to get
Arthur to send him one in time and I met him at the airport to pick up the bits on Saturday.
The Stata is a flat disc, with an achromat bonded to the surface. It has a hole centrally llocated for a machined hub to sit in. The machined hub sits nicely on the spin bearing, (and also fits the Mike New bearing).
The Spin bearing is basically a sapphire/ceramic bearing. A stainless steel shaft runs through PTFE bushes. The result is a very low drag bearing. Very similar, I should think to the Pink Triangle and Funk Firm bearings, so it's well proven.
A weekend of DIY meant I didn't have as much time to listen to music as I would have liked to, but I managed to squeeze the installation in while Mrs H was cooking lunch. I sat down last night to play a few tunes, with the intention of an early night. That didn't happen!
I was hearing detail that I hadn't heard before. Bass goes deeper, and has more detail. There seems to be better separation of instruments. I couldn't stop listening to it.
I have not done any back to back tests between the Mike New bearing or the Spin yet, other than to feel the drag between them all by giving them a bit of a spin. The Funk bearing certainly has the least amount.
I will try the Strata with the MNB next weekend and will report my opinions.
Please note that I have never heard what the ETP platter is capable of. I have only been able to compare Strata to the Mk1 Funk platter. It would be interesting to hear what someone with an ETP thinks of the Strata though.
Overall, I was impressed with the improvement that the Spin and Strata have me on my deck. When I get a chance, I'll post up some pictures of the standard, Spin and Mike New bearings (the same as those on AOS).
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Post by MartinT on Apr 13, 2015 8:35:37 GMT
What are you comparing with, Wonky? What bearing/platter/mat were you running previously?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2015 8:47:20 GMT
I was using the Mike New bearing/Funk mk1 platter/Achromat combination.
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Post by jazzbones on Apr 13, 2015 16:07:01 GMT
What are you comparing with, Wonky? What bearing/platter/mat were you running previously? Have we not, more or less, been through all this albeit at another place, another time... De ja vu? IIRC it climaxed in huff'n' puff and an unhappy outcome for one? Still, the bearing is an interesting addition to the plot. How is drag on a bearing measured consistently and without variance in execution? What repeated method is employed? |
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Post by MartinT on Apr 13, 2015 16:20:26 GMT
Not really, Ron. I tried a very early Strata platter sample which I didn't like in comparison with an ETP, but it didn't fit the Mike New bearing cone securely, which I reported at the time, and didn't seem to give completely stable speed due to the sensing cog on that example. I discounted the findings then as I do now, and I have never tried the Funk bearing at all as it wasn't available at the time. So I think it's relevant to hear what Wonky has found with respect to sound quality with these upgrade parts.
What I have listened to is the Funk Mk. I platter versus the ETP, where I preferred the latter.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2015 16:46:55 GMT
The platter now sits securely on the bearing, be it the Mike New or the Spin.
Out of the Mk1 Funk and Strata, I have a preference for the Strata. Never heard an ETP, so I can't comment on that.
Why do you need to measure drag? You can actually feel the difference in the friction of the bearings.
Wether or not a low friction bearing makes a big difference on a Technics deck is a subject for debate, but all I can tell you is that to my ears, this is a nice combination compared to the Mike New/Mk1 Funk combination. I couldn't tell you how much is down to the bearing alone, or the platter, as I have not tried the Strata on the Mike New for any length of time. I want to get used to this combination first, and then swap things out to see what combination suits me best.
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Post by danielquinn on Apr 13, 2015 18:45:29 GMT
Price ?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2015 9:48:44 GMT
So, it's been a few weeks since my last post on this subject, and it's been a couple of interesting weeks.
I personally have found that the Funk Firm bearing reveals more delicate detail than the Mike New. Out of the two components, this is the one that makes the biggest change to my Technics. Obviously I have not tried the Mike New bearing in a bearing base plate. If I had, I could not fit this bearing.
The "spin" bearing allows you to hear things that are in the vinyl better, Cymbal crashes now appear more realistic, and you can follow the decay right down through the noise floor. Bass is still there, with good control, and detail. The mid range has the same level of detail, but as mentioned earlier it's the high range where the biggest difference is.
Adding Strata to the mix just improves this subtlety. The old stability/speed issue is now resolved and as such, the 3D image of the music presented to you is now superb, making placement of members of a band easy. There is also massive seperation/space between instruments. Much more than the Mike New/Funk Mk1 platter I had before.
So in short, I think that the bearing is going to become a permanent feature. As for the platter, while I appreciate what it does and enjoy the presentation, I would still like to try the Mike New ETP before I make a decision.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2015 9:49:54 GMT
And a little picture for those interested.  |
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Post by MartinT on Apr 27, 2015 13:48:10 GMT
Good stuff, Wonky, the more solutions out there for good record replay the better. As you've observed, the base plate precludes the use of any other bearing and I bonded mine in as well as bolted it down. It wouldn't be difficult to buy another chassis casting but in view of all the additional regulators I've installed it simply wouldn't be worth the risk that I would prefer the Funk bearing. As it is, I consider my Technics modding pretty much finished and am just enjoying the music. If you want to take your Technics/Funk deck to the extreme, you can always go triple stage regulated  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 18:04:19 GMT
That is some serious work, with a hefty budget I should imagine.
There are a few other areas in my system to sort out before I go down that route. Namely speakers and DAC.
Just listening to The The "Infected." What a fantastic recording. It has real drive, slam and detail. I'm really happy with the sound right now.
I think I also need to look at my equipment isolation, as the system gets a bit "shouty" when I wind the wick up when listening to my speakers.
I need to to wind up the volume and listen to the system on headphones at the same time to see if it's the TT suffering, or the preamp.
Last time, I still had the lid on, and open. It could be this, and I realise it's a no no.
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Post by pinkie on Apr 28, 2015 16:51:03 GMT
Kevin Ah Technics power supplies. Arthur is talking of one, but if you must fiddle with such things I can think of an intriguing alternative option. In the unlikely event I can get Owen to design power supplies using his patented technology for the likes of a Raspberry Pi, I am sure we could add one for the SL1200 to the list. Meantime I am failing miserably to be patient and wait to get to hear the 2 power amps he has waiting for me. Namely "Pop" as he refers to the one Pink Triangle Integral made, that is now restored to his original design spec, and the AHB2. I have a feeling that one of those, and I suspect the new baby, is going to be the final piece in my personal jigsaw. It is picking up storming reviews, with not a dissenter I can find anywhere - albeit most of them are pro equipment reviews. I'm softening up the Mrs for budget authorisation, and she's coming round... But looks like it will be June before I get to hear them - damn!  Glad you enjoyed the platter and bearing. Hopefully we can get together again soon.  Martin - I'm sorry you didn't get to listen to a proper platter and had your time wasted in that way. My friend in Newhaven can be frustrating like that. If it wasn't for the fish lunches ...  |
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Post by MartinT on Apr 28, 2015 23:08:15 GMT
Not to worry, Richard. The comparison would have been interesting but is academic for me now. I wish Arthur well with the Funk mods, but wonder at the size of the market.
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Post by pinkie on May 6, 2015 16:11:05 GMT
Very briefly. Saw AK today - he is focussed on Munich, where he is planning to reveal a CGI of his F1 arm (I actually saw parts for it today!!) And there may even be a working AK47 on display. And his isolation cradle for SL1200 and others , rather bizarly named "kinetic" which sounds to me like a Linn product  Technics "spin" and "strata" are on hold till after Munich, when he is going to measure a Mike New bearing, and confirm his measurements for the Funk products, and double check with information from Wonky regarding fit and universality, before producing final production versions. If necessary there will be a separate Mike New fit hub (at a price) - if he is not persuaded that the MN bearing is made to the correct measurements. Anyway - Funk Technics parts - bearing, platter/mat and isolation cradle - after Munich The F1 is a bit special - some of the materials don't exist yet! I think the CGI will make an impact at Munich though (nobody will miss it - he has taken an ad space which is the entrance door mat!!!). If anyone wants a sneak preview, he said I can post one once he is on the ferry for Munich! |
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Post by pinkie on May 9, 2015 16:31:48 GMT
Brief update on the bearing. I forget now where I had been promising to report back on "load limits". According to AK the issue is not so much load as "shock" (which takes me back to Pink Triangle days). The bearing will happily support a 10Kg platter in a normal stable playing state, but the sapphire is easily shattered by shock - so dropping a 1Kg record weight onto it might easily damage it. I mean dropping - from a height, not using a record weight.
It used to be a bloody nightmare with Pink Triangles, well for shaky handed one-eyed old gits like me, because platter and bearing and belt had to be fitted over bearing spindle on a bouncing sub-chassis - while holding the belt over the pulley with a loop of pink string (it had to be pink string), and the exceptionally tight tolerance fit, meant a vacuum formed and the bearing would, if you weren't careful clunk onto the spindle. I never actually broke one, but was sure I must have done any number of times.
And on the subject of Pink Triangle bouncers, I'll start another thread about Arthur's return to sanity, and suspended decks in the form of "kinetic" - and a talk over a beer a couple of years back.
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Post by MartinT on May 9, 2015 21:29:04 GMT
There was another turntable with sapphire bearing prone to breakage. Sota? Good advice for any bearing is to treat it gently, you don't want to damage it whatever the material.
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