Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 11:37:14 GMT
Ive taken a lot of pics and put them in an album rathe than pasting dozens here. The last pic is of a late model IV with a more normal PSU board. I traced the + and - wires from the din socket (grey and yellow on the bottom of the din) and they go directly to the smaller smoothing caps. One wire to the left side cap and the other to the right side cap. s910.photobucket.com/user/cyprusmemory/library/Exposure%20IV%20single
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 11:44:37 GMT
Having been in a similar position of looking to breath new life into an old classic amp, in my case a Densen DM-20 pre, best course of action is to contact Exposure directly and talk to their Tech guys. I've heard Exposure's customer service is very good, and If they are anything like Densen they will bend over backwards to give you what you need. Exposure Electronics Unit 18, Winston Business Centre 43 Chartwell Road Lancing Business Park Lancing BN15 8TU Tel: 01273 423 877 Fax: +44 1273 806648 I'll give them a call tomorrow thanks, if I haven't been able to figure it out before then. I really don't want to send the amp back to Exposure if I can avoid it. I dont want to throw hundreds at it and frankly I worry that it might come back sounding different. Ideally, I'd like to have the satisfaction of bringing it back to full working order myself. If not, I'll probably use the local company I mentioned. They build their own amps and service a lot of high end kit. I know first hand that they have succeeded with some esoteric amps that the authorised service depts have failed with. I feel like I will have more control over the work if it goes to them and I avoid any carriage risks too.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 11:48:50 GMT
Actually, the pics aren't in the order I captured them. To avoid confusion, this is a later Exposure IV PSU arrangement. As you will see, mine is different.
|
|
|
Post by Mr Whippy on Mar 8, 2015 11:50:06 GMT
Well, they do say a picture tells a thousand words! But from what you say it seems the supply is just a raw dc feed from the main supply. The pre "supply" separate board/regulator might be in the pre case or on the main board - or it may not have any.
|
|
|
Post by ChrisB on Mar 8, 2015 11:55:39 GMT
43 Chartwell Road Lancing Business Park Lancing
....just a stone's throw away from the B&W factory
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 12:13:28 GMT
My own thoughts are that this setup is almost entirely dual mono and the fault is the same on both channels, so I'm wondering if it's more likely to be one of the very limited shared components. These are the transformer, the on/off switch and a small few components on the preamp boards. There are also a couple of what look to be bridge rectifiers on one side of the transformer. They are different sizes and shapes. I can photo them too if it helps. This might take a bit of doing because I'm still afflicted by IoS 8 copy paste bugs but I will try and post some pics of the preamp boards
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 12:16:26 GMT
The limited shared circuitry on the preamp main board:
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 12:18:11 GMT
And the preamp output board
|
|
|
Post by istari_knight on Mar 8, 2015 13:05:11 GMT
Only just spotted this, I wouldn't like to speculate as I've not encountered anything like this myself & am not overly familiar with Exposure [repaired a blown output stage in an XX once but thats it]. Its very likely a problem in the preamp PSU and not the preamp itself.... If you could post a piccy of your power amp internals that would be good. Of the pictures you've posted so far the "shared components" on the mother board are just a muting relay & timing circuit so you can ignore them & the daughter boards won't be at fault as the problem is present in both channels.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 13:30:09 GMT
|
|
|
Post by istari_knight on Mar 8, 2015 14:21:56 GMT
That power supply is "messy" isn't it ?!
Is the preamp power supply dual rail or single ended ? Ideally you need to trace it back from the DIN socket, is it regulated ? I can't see any regs in your photo's... Even if it were the shared noise between channels makes me suspect the rectifier, I have experienced a dodgy bridge causing those "whooping" noises you describe in the past although not constant buzz/hum.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 14:45:08 GMT
I'm so clueless I'm not sure how to find out. I can tell you that the power is carried straight from a - pin direct to one of the smaller smoothing caps. Also straight from the + pin to the opposite side's cap. I don't see any components anywhere. I think its a very simple arrangement. I have a Dual IV with 9a dedicated separate VI dual supply and a dual rail VII preamp. This more simple arrangement betters it sonically though, and I reckon its the finest sounding Exposure combo I've had.
I see what look like two separate rectifiers: one green and one black, both in my last pics. Have you any idea which one would be the most likely candidate to replace and also what I'd replace them with. One has a code on it but the green one is blank. It would be a fairly easy task to replace them as long as I knew what to replace them with. AFAIK they are cheap to buy and easy to do, so it couldn't hurt to try.
If that doesn't cure it, I'm really only left with the power switch and the transformer that are shared by both channels.
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Mar 8, 2015 15:05:45 GMT
Is it taking raw DC from the power amp and then regulating it in the preamp?
|
|
|
Post by istari_knight on Mar 8, 2015 15:11:12 GMT
I'm so clueless I'm not sure how to find out. I can tell you that the power is carried straight from a - pin direct to one of the smaller smoothing caps. Also straight from the + pin to the opposite side's cap. I don't see any components anywhere. I think its a very simple arrangement. I have a Dual IV with 9a dedicated separate VI dual supply and a dual rail VII preamp. This more simple arrangement betters it sonically though, and I reckon its the finest sounding Exposure combo I've had. I see what look like two separate rectifiers: one green and one black, both in my last pics. Have you any idea which one would be the most likely candidate to replace and also what I'd replace them with. One has a code on it but the green one is blank. It would be a fairly easy task to replace them as long as I knew what to replace them with. AFAIK they are cheap to buy and easy to do, so it couldn't hurt to try. If that doesn't cure it, I'm really only left with the power switch and the transformer that are shared by both channels. I've just noticed there is a PCB next to each PA heatsink, can you confirm what these contain ? Possibly protection relays ? I find it difficult to believe the preamps supply is unregulated but thats the difficulty dealing with such old & leftfield gear, I reckon the DIP14 IC's are regulators in the preamp. If it were me I'd replace the rectifiers first, neither transformer or power switch can be at fault of that I'm certain. These will be fine: www.maplin.co.uk/p/kbpc2504-25a-bridge-rectifier-ar85g if the problem persists I wouldn't rule out a grounding issue, you really need to make up a new pre>power DIN cable to rule that out too.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 15:12:56 GMT
I don't know enough to be sure, but the preamp board pictured above (under Chris B's last post) is marked "regulator board". There seems to be no PSU circuitry in the power amp. Only those two bridge rectifiers, the 4 caps and the transformer.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 15:16:29 GMT
I'm so clueless I'm not sure how to find out. I can tell you that the power is carried straight from a - pin direct to one of the smaller smoothing caps. Also straight from the + pin to the opposite side's cap. I don't see any components anywhere. I think its a very simple arrangement. I have a Dual IV with 9a dedicated separate VI dual supply and a dual rail VII preamp. This more simple arrangement betters it sonically though, and I reckon its the finest sounding Exposure combo I've had. I see what look like two separate rectifiers: one green and one black, both in my last pics. Have you any idea which one would be the most likely candidate to replace and also what I'd replace them with. One has a code on it but the green one is blank. It would be a fairly easy task to replace them as long as I knew what to replace them with. AFAIK they are cheap to buy and easy to do, so it couldn't hurt to try. If that doesn't cure it, I'm really only left with the power switch and the transformer that are shared by both channels. I've just noticed there is a PCB next to each PA heatsink, can you confirm what these contain ? Possibly protection relays ? I find it difficult to believe the preamps supply is unregulated but thats the difficulty dealing with such old & leftfield gear, I reckon the DIP14 IC's are regulators in the preamp. I can post a closer pic of these. I do know that in later Exposure IV amps, everything that is on these separate boards is located on the main boards instead. Back in a mo with a closer pic. If it were me I'd replace the rectifiers first, neither transformer or power switch can be at fault of that I'm certain. These will be fine: www.maplin.co.uk/p/kbpc2504-25a-bridge-rectifier-ar85g if the problem persists I wouldn't rule out a grounding issue, you really need to make up a new pre>power DIN cable to rule that out too.
|
|
|
Post by istari_knight on Mar 8, 2015 15:17:09 GMT
Thats it then Power amplifier is sending unregulated dual rail DC to the preamp where its regulated by those 2 DIP14 IC's.
|
|
|
Post by MartinT on Mar 8, 2015 15:22:08 GMT
Doesn't explain the whine being at the same level irrespective of volume setting.
|
|
|
Post by istari_knight on Mar 8, 2015 15:22:35 GMT
Which is how it should be done. Ideally you want the reg as close the the circuit its supplying as possible as Exposure have done here unlike the old Naim stuff where it was in a separate box with 1m of cable between them
|
|
|
Post by istari_knight on Mar 8, 2015 15:24:45 GMT
Doesn't explain the whine being at the same level irrespective of volume setting. What doesn't explain it ? I was simply remarking we'd sussed out how the thing works I can't see both regulators going duff simultaneously and there are no shared components until you get back to the rectifier bridge... Worth a try for £2.50.
|
|