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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2015 15:47:56 GMT
I know absolutely nothing about tech specs but didn't the Neat Petite 2 have a high crossover point to integrate with a ribbon tweeter?
I know a lot of people have written off the new Royds but I would like to hear a pair. OK, so they won't have the Joe Ackroyd drivers but the cabinets are still pretty much as he designed and Joe was especially proud of the cabinet on the Minstrels. I remember him being quoted a such because he felt the proportions were near ideal for what he was seeking to achieve.
Also, nobody knocks Exposure amps even though they have been through more than one pair of hands since JF left. The current incumbent is more Onix than Exposure (nothing wrong with that IMO) but nobody seems to make an issue like they do with Royd.
I have a feeling that the success of the new Royds is more likely to be affected by the emotions of Royd fans than it is the sonic and musical merits of the speakers and that is a shame. OK, so one outing at a show didn't impress some people and others are now relying on 2nd hand accounts to dismiss them. I have heard some shocking sounds at shows produced by kit I know can be stellar in the right location and company. There are so many variables at such events, you cannot judge something a failure because of one such outing.
It' must be a very hard task to sell in the current UK hifi marketplace. I feel sorry for the new investors in Royd because so many people are confusing emotion with the product. Jpe Ackroyd had a long and full career and seemingly sold the company on in order to enjoy the remainder of his life. Why not let someone else try to re-launch the brand and have their chance of success? There are old Royds available for fans and making new versions won't affect that in any way.
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Post by istari_knight on Feb 6, 2015 16:20:14 GMT
With regard to the crossover point confusion I was struggling to understand how a bass driver which uses doping to reduce HF output can be crossed over so high... It simply won't work, you'll have a hole in the frequency response surely ? Of course I can only speak for myself but I find the current products insulting to the Royd brand name, genuine Royds are identifiable by these traits: 5" hand doped custom made bass drivers with 20mm VC & no dust cap or phase plug, hand modified tweeter assemblies with added rear chamber for lower Fs, 7L cabinets, reflex ports which use an aluminium tube as a brace between the bass driver magnet & the rear cabinet panel [Joe was granted a patent for this] not to mention lining the cabinet walls with steel plate. The current crop have none of these traits, not a single one... The only thing they have in common is the cabinet shape is similar to what was arguably Joe's least impressive design, the Minstrel. IMO it was a poor decision to choose the Royd brand for revival... It simply has too much of an identity to reinvent, would have been far better off with something more generic like Heybrook or JPW. That said, they are a British company & no doubt a good bunch of lads [just misguided  ] and I wish them well in there venture. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2015 16:59:40 GMT
I really don't understand enough to know about the frequency limits of doped paper. I do believe the Neats I mentioned (also doped paper) used a tweeter that others crossed over to at around 6-8 kHz though.
I take your point about the Royd brand but some of those features, whilst typical of Many Royd products, are not present in all. The later Revelation range did use phase plugs. The tweeters weren't always hand modified. The standard Audax wasn't to the best of my knowledge and the later Revelation tweeters were again a new introduction. You also have a few that use bigger drivers.
Steel isn't used as a lining in all speakers either. Sapphires for instance, sounded near identical to Edens for me, yet they lacked the steel lining of my Edens. Then the port you describe was dropped by Joe himself when he made the Minstrels. They have side firing plastic ports. Then of course we have the Apex, which is a transmission line speaker.
Not all Royd drivers were doped either. sapphires etc use an un-doped driver, as do Edens. Personally I haven't really liked any doped Royds. They sound thick and grungy in comparison. I replaced my Minstrel drivers with un-doped Royd drivers and to me they sound better for it.
The great part of Minstrels for me as the cabinet and the new design retains much of this, albeit in a better finish and arguably with a better build. If it was a simple remake, I'm not sure who would buy them when so many used pairs are selling for £100 or so.
Then of course, we have the fact that a lot of time has passed since a Joe Ackroyd speaker was introduced. Had he still been active today, I simply don't believe he would have continued using the same bits. His later speakers already showed a number of changes so several years on, his speakers may have been very different.
I'm glad that you wish the guys well though. I really don't see any insult in their attempt to revive the brand. I'd rather see them try to bring something a little new than be a "tribute band" to Joe Ackroyd. I also think the Royd-loving market wouldn't be big enough to succeed with a remake of the old speakers. There has to be some appeal to newer buyer too. We may both feel different if we got a proper chance to hear the new Royds, but all I'm asking is for folk to cut the new owners a bit of slack until they do. I would have loved to revive Royd speakers but I didn't have the guts, business acumen or technical skills to even try. That's why I feel criticising someone else for doing it when I haven't heard the results is wrong.
It's an interesting debate though and I am really glad that you put the counter-balancing argument forward. I agree with you that it was a risky venture to revive such an emotive brand. I simply hope that people can see beyond the emotion and give them a listen.
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Post by istari_knight on Feb 6, 2015 17:53:55 GMT
You're being a tad pedantic I'm sure you get my meaning overall though of what makes a Royd a Royd... To me at least ! Later models did use different idea's [inferior IMO] when all is said and done I highly doubt stick in the muds like me are the target market anyway... If I am then god help them  |
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Post by southall1998 on Feb 6, 2015 19:10:07 GMT
Speaking of steel....I had my wee JPW's modded inside with Steel ''square'' plates.
They are in OK condition with some cosmetic flaws, but works well.
I'm thinking about selling them on...
S.
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Post by yomanze on Feb 26, 2015 12:51:19 GMT
It doesn't help that most Royd fans like to have at least three pairs of different models in their collection !  (well 3x now after Jammy bought my Sapphire MK1s)... My favourite Royds are the Sorcerers with the (hand-doped) Revelation drivers, ultra-rare, here's mine:   ...it is incredible how deep they go with enough amp behind them - they energise my room with ease & produce a huge 3D, front-row stage. I also own Minstrels & RR3s. |
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Post by MartinT on Feb 28, 2015 15:15:12 GMT
Interesting conflagration between the tweeter and port!
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Post by istari_knight on Feb 28, 2015 16:05:30 GMT
Classic's. I notice yours are sans phase plugs [well.. Cones] does that make them early Sorcerers or late ? Early, I think  |
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Post by Mr Whippy on Feb 28, 2015 17:40:16 GMT
My modded Minstrels:  And my last pair of Sapphires:  "Compare the Minstrels… dot, com." |
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] and I wish them well in there venture.
(well 3x now after Jammy bought my Sapphire MK1s)...
