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T amps
Feb 19, 2015 23:24:24 GMT
Post by Greg on Feb 19, 2015 23:24:24 GMT
Yep, cant't wait. From tomorrow, I can spread kit all over the floors, in as many rooms as I like and leave it there until I choose to remove it. I can get the soldering iron onto the dining room table to start work on intoconnects and leave it there overnight when I've finished work. Loving this freedom  Greg |
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Feb 20, 2015 21:00:58 GMT
Post by Greg on Feb 20, 2015 21:00:58 GMT
Quick update. I have had one Mini 1 running for the last four hours and I have to say I am impressed albeit as the burn in is progressing, the sound is changing. At the moment, bass is a bit fat but I have no doubt that will improve. As previously suggested, it sounded great out of the box but clearly it is getting better. Sound stage is great and probably better than my valve 300B amp. Midrange where there is a lot of information can start to sound slightly confused but as time goes on it is getting better.
It drives my WAD KLS3's just fine, although as Gazjam has indicated, if the volume is set too high on complex music, it does start clipping, albeit this is a volume level I would never use for general domestic listening. Nevertheless, I'm very glad I've gone for two amps for dual amping.
For an average punter with efficient speakers this is a no brainer. £100 for this quality....madness not to go for it. Having said that, I still have so far to go. Still to do dual amping, introducing a linear PSU and of course a pre-amp which initially will be the Capella, but will try my Sereo coffee with it (apologies to those that are adverse to LDR's). Regardless, if you facture in all that, this really has the potential for quality Hi-Fi at a budget price, which if properly exposed, could put the industry into a bit of a downward spiral. Makes sense really, technology has progressed but the industry has rather sat on it's laurels, a bit like the British Motorcycle companies back in the 1970's
Bear with me. I intend to put at least fifty hours on the current amp and then swap in the other for another fifty plus hours burn in. Thereafter I can start messing with dual amping and then the Capella as a pre. By then, my linear PSU may have arrived. It also gives me time to construct twin output interconnects and modify the feed ends of my speaker cables to accommodate two amps.
All good stuff and in this initial phase, all the indicators are very very good. Very glad I've tried this. Might really be a serious change to my system..........we shall see!
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Feb 20, 2015 22:12:07 GMT
Post by John on Feb 20, 2015 22:12:07 GMT
Hi Greg
I think your findings are pretty accurate The Mini 1 will clip at higher volume levels. Each step you make should be like a big step forward, it crazy how far you can push these amps.
It is a shame the HIFI press do not try something similar to what you doing. I think the results would shock them, but I guess that is where forums are such a good place to share information and learn from each other
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Feb 20, 2015 22:26:05 GMT
Post by brian2957 on Feb 20, 2015 22:26:05 GMT
Nice one Greg and thanks for the feedback . If your experience mirrors ours up here i.e. adding a linear PSU and then the Capella , I believe that you're in for a very pleasant surprise . The upgrade combinations for this technology may be endless |
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Feb 21, 2015 17:41:52 GMT
Post by tony on Feb 21, 2015 17:41:52 GMT
Greg great to read the findings so far. The Capella really lets the single amp relax giving it less work to do. I look forward to your findings with the stereo coffee as a battery powered version is doable for me.
Adding extra t amps really does help things along-not so much volume wise but control and speed.
Im running 4 temple monos into my Frugels just now and really cant fault what Im hearing.
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Feb 21, 2015 19:52:06 GMT
Post by brian2957 on Feb 21, 2015 19:52:06 GMT
Whoa , that must be good Tony . I look forward to hearing that . |
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Feb 21, 2015 22:33:10 GMT
Post by Greg on Feb 21, 2015 22:33:10 GMT
Greg great to read the findings so far. The Capella really lets the single amp relax giving it less work to do. I look forward to your findings with the stereo coffee as a battery powered version is doable for me. Adding extra t amps really does help things along-not so much volume wise but control and speed. Im running 4 temple monos into my Frugels just now and really cant fault what Im hearing. Thank you, Tony. It remains early days for me but I have just about got 24hrs on my first Mini 1 and the CDP has packed up  My CDP is a tweaked Naim CD3 and has no option on DAC output. My mate, Vinylspinner has come to my rescue and is lending me a CDP which hopefully will allow me to burn in my Bresesford Caiman II at the same time. The Naim has no output for external DAC. Update on the Mini 1 is that the bass bloom as expected has now gone, and it remains very revealing but as Vinylspinner said today, it doesn't have the speed, attack and slam of my 300B valve amp. I agree, but I have a road to walk which is still ahead of me, so I still need to trial linear power supply, dual amping and of course a separate pre-amp, beit the Capella or my controversial Stereo Coffee LDR option. Be sure, I'll keep you up to date with progress. |
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Feb 21, 2015 23:03:05 GMT
Post by brian2957 on Feb 21, 2015 23:03:05 GMT
Turn the Mini-1 into a power amp and add the Capella and things will change Greg.
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Feb 22, 2015 16:53:05 GMT
Post by tony on Feb 22, 2015 16:53:05 GMT
Brian my thoughts exactly...Though Greg is doing things patiently and systematically which should let him get a good handle on what he is hearing and provide some great feedback for the troops on here interested in t amps.
The four mono blocks suit me- not so sure you and Gary would care for the presentation which is very punchy and exact...the clinical cold side of neutral. More of a headphone sound if that makes any sense!!!
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Feb 22, 2015 20:58:00 GMT
Post by Greg on Feb 22, 2015 20:58:00 GMT
OK, some interesting developments. Nigel has kindly lent me a Sony CDP-XB930E and it sounds great straight into the system with current Mini-1 which now after about thirty hours use is starting to present a balanced sound and I expect with time, it will get better. Unlike my Naim CDP, the Sony has options for External DAC hook up so I introduced my very new Beresford Caiman II, using a Beresford toslink optical interconnect. Sounded OK, but didn't particular inspire me. Something seemed to be lacking and the sound was a little muddled and scruffy (I hope you know what I mean  I put this down to the Caiman being new and also needing it's own burn in period as Stanley suggests may be the case. I then raised the volume pot on the Mini-1 to maximum and switched the Caiman to 'variable line out' making it the pre-amp. Big improvement overall but I still felt the sound was a little flat and confused. Again, put this down to the Caiman being so new and needing its own time to burn in. Then, after an hour I introduced a Beresford co-ax connector and selected that output from the Caiman.........Wow, what an improvement. The sound is now properly transparent and authoritative and showing the micro detail I want to hear. Furthermore, in doing this test, I have used some challenging music being a Pink Floyd collectors limited edition 2 CD live recording of The Wall. Recorded in 80/81 but released in 2000. So current circumstance can only get better. The Caiman is still burning in. The Mini-1 is sounding balanced and authoritive now but I expect it will get a bit better, and that is with it being in standard form with the volume pot (turned to max) still in circuit as the Caiman is doing the pre duties. I'm going to keep running it this way until I go to bed, but just before I will remove the Mini-1 and replace with my second Amptastic to burn that in as well. The first Mini-1 will then be subject to conversion to power amp function which is easy to do. When the second Mini-1 is burnt in, that's when my labour will start because I have to creat a dual amp system. I will need to splice my speaker cables at the input end and also creat some two into one RCA connectors to facilitate signal supply for dual amping. Time to get the scalpel, cable striper and soldering iron out. I really am hoping using the optical links to the Caiman will improve with time. The whole process I am going through is about a major change in sound delivery. I'm retaining my Garrard TT and valve phono stage which will never go away, but I'm looking to convert to Slice media server for digital music source and thereafter I want to include my DVD player and a Satallite TV link. I need all the inputs to the Caiman to do this and will be disappointed if the toslinks are sub standard. Interesting because others have suggested the coax option is the best and also glass toslink conductors are the way to go but these are difficult to find at a nice price. Anyway, early days and much to trial and learn. Going well so far.....it can only get better! |
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Feb 22, 2015 21:19:16 GMT
Post by brian2957 on Feb 22, 2015 21:19:16 GMT
Thanks for the feedback Greg , it gets more interesting daily |
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Feb 23, 2015 17:26:15 GMT
Post by gazjam on Feb 23, 2015 17:26:15 GMT
Would imagine Greg it's worth putting in the Capella as a Pre and comparing.
That's the combo us Jocks have tried and found to be fantastic.
Tony, you have the Caiman as well?
The Mini-1 really responds differently to different Pre's, Brian was over and heard the different Pre with his Mini-1.
very different sound to the Capella.
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Feb 23, 2015 23:01:45 GMT
Post by Greg on Feb 23, 2015 23:01:45 GMT
OK, I have now introduced the Capella for pre duties and retained the Caiman as a simple fixed output DAC. Using the Capella as the pre, certainly it is smoother and more revealing than the Caiman pre section. I like it a lot so Gary, you seem to be right.
Both Mini-1's now appear to be provisionally run in so I converted one to power amp function only, basically being to link the circuit to exclude the internal volume pot. Yep, slight improvement but nothing gob smaking. At present I am still running off the standard (upgraded) power supply so there is room for change there and having discussed with Nick Gorham at the Bristol show over the weekend, I'll not go for the 30W Chinese eBay option advertised here because I think I can build something more comprehensive with multiple outputs for all these low voltage units. Having said that, I still have my Anker Astro Pro 2 battery to try in the system.
Current impression on sound is pretty good. It seems to be more extended and revealing compared to my 300B set up, and in particular is showing me micro detail on recordings I have not previously heard. When the signal gets complex, I think that is when the Mini-1 breaks down. It doesn't clip as such, but does confuse the sound. I am suspecting and hoping this is not a problem and will be ameliorated with the introduction of dual amping.
There you go. Latest update. Many thanks to Gary, Brian, Tony and John for encouragement. I think I'm getting there.......
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Feb 23, 2015 23:12:19 GMT
Post by brian2957 on Feb 23, 2015 23:12:19 GMT
Thanks Greg . I'm really enjoying reading your feedback . To date I've only used / heard the Mini-1 / Capella / Chinese PSU combination so I'm interested in where you go with this . If you get Nick to build you a PSU I would be interested in your feedback on this also .
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Feb 23, 2015 23:46:23 GMT
Post by tony on Feb 23, 2015 23:46:23 GMT
Great result Greg...glad you are hearing all the incremental improvements the changes make. I agree with your thoughts on the Caiman 2 as a pre its good but the Capella does a fine job.
I run my whole rig runs off a large car battery(cleaner with less hash or softness). I prefer the sound to PSUs though Gary and Brian liked the mains better-personal sonic taste methinks.
Look forward to your observations when you add the second amp!
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Feb 24, 2015 5:06:30 GMT
Post by John on Feb 24, 2015 5:06:30 GMT
The Astra Pro power unit will probably make things worse with the Mini 1. When I tried this it was not a good result at all.
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Feb 24, 2015 22:05:15 GMT
Post by Greg on Feb 24, 2015 22:05:15 GMT
Thanks all. John, I was not thinking of using the Astra Pro with the Mini-1's but rather with the Beresford units. At present I am using a single Beresford mains PSU for the Caiman and Capella and the new Amptastic PSU for the Mini-1. I have no grumbles with the sound other than I suspect it could be more dynamic once I have dual amped with dual PSU. Not had the time to convert my cables for this up to now and probably won't have time to do it tomorrow.
Having said that, using a single Mini-1 really is very remarkable sound wise which I am thoroughly enjoying. With the wife away on holiday, the system is on all the time which is a very good sign, because obviously the sound is not fatiguing.
As a result of all this, I do think I have identified some short comings with my speakers because clearly I get a bass hump when port resonances are excited. The old, old story of managing a bass reflex system! My plan is to get the dual amp system installed and if this is still an issue, I'll do some tuning to the speaker cabinets. I have ideas on this which will be simple to apply involving the addition of a further wool felt layer to the back panel behind the bass driver, probably folded and glued in a concertina fashion.
All good stuff and certainly a very big change in direction for me which at present is not confirmed but certainly shows very positive signs. Next report back will be when I introduce dual amping after I've done the work on interconnects and speaker cables. Bear with me until I can get this done. Certainly the outcome is worth waiting for. Watch this space!
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Feb 24, 2015 22:29:18 GMT
Post by tony on Feb 24, 2015 22:29:18 GMT
Greg,
Your thoughts on the switch to battery for the front end will be interesting- might be wise to try this before moving on.
How are you going to wire the two amps just out of interest?
If you can get a hold of an old healthy car battery ( or whip it out yer car for a bit) is well worth a try getting completely off the grid. I made the move and have stayed with it- occasional dalliance with mains does nothing to change my mind.
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Feb 24, 2015 22:56:27 GMT
Post by Greg on Feb 24, 2015 22:56:27 GMT
Yep, introducing the battery to the front end is my next step. I'm just waiting for the Anker to complete charging. It will be an interesting experiment. Last time I did this with Beresford components, the sound got softer and maybe lost some of the dynamics, but it still sounded pretty good. I'll let you know how I get on. I have not ruled out getting into proper battery supply and getting off the grid, but will not be getting the battery out of my car for the trial. I have a Citroen Xzara Picasso and the battery is under the passenger seat and is a nightmare to remove, but I take onboard your fundamental point and may explore serious battery supply in the future.
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Feb 24, 2015 23:19:04 GMT
Post by Greg on Feb 24, 2015 23:19:04 GMT
Greg, How are you going to wire the two amps just out of interest? Thanks, Tony, I've spent a bit of time thinking about this. Originally my plan was to deviate from the suggested Amtastic configuration and use one amp for stereo bass duties and the othe for stereo treble, but on reflection, I think I will follow the Amptastic recommendation. This is because bass draws the most current so if one amp deals with bass alone it will be working far harder than the other dealing with just treble. That would probably lead in time to an imbalance in performance from the amps and therefore I've settled for the recommended option. www.amptastic.com/assets/img/how_to_vertical_biamp_tripath_amp_2015.jpg |
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I put this down to the Caiman being new and also needing it's own burn in period as Stanley suggests may be the case. I then raised the volume pot on the Mini-1 to maximum and switched the Caiman to 'variable line out' making it the pre-amp. Big improvement overall but I still felt the sound was a little flat and confused. Again, put this down to the Caiman being so new and needing its own time to burn in. Then, after an hour I introduced a Beresford co-ax connector and selected that output from the Caiman.........Wow, what an improvement. The sound is now properly transparent and authoritative and showing the micro detail I want to hear. Furthermore, in doing this test, I have used some challenging music being a Pink Floyd collectors limited edition 2 CD live recording of The Wall. Recorded in 80/81 but released in 2000. 