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Post by pinkie on Feb 6, 2018 8:36:40 GMT
The only way to se if these work, is going to be to try one but as I said before, I am too tight to try. I am glad that they are giving people a performance increase though. Actually - that would only demonstrate that you notice differences when you play with gizmo's. Although internally we can be happy that we notice a change, it doesn't mean there was a change to notice. There is just too much research on this, and I don't subscribe to the view that audiophiles are aliens from another planet. The "Foo Tell" has been apparent for some time on this subject. That "Tell" that "litmus test" is a collective agreement regarding an improbable phenomena, WHICH IS READILY CAPABLE OF DEMONSTRATION IF TRUE, but nobody ever seeks to properly demonstrate, instead relying on an appeal to faith. Whilst Mad Moon has carefully covered his back, and only hears differences after hours of warm up and burn in (which renders a sensible blind test all but impossible), MartinT and MikeMusic (and his wife) apparently can hear fuse differences straight out of the box. Which means anyone wanting to nail this dispute could easily do a blind demonstration where someone changes the fuses randomly without the gifted auditioner being aware of which fuse they are listening to. DC would point out that the test needs to be double blind to PROVE the fuse effect, and he is scientifically correct, but in my experience at PT, there is no need for such elaborate procedures, since the demonstration will fall at the first hurdle. And before the howl goes up, of course there is no need for a music enthusiast to prove anything. They can all just enjoy what they experience. But accept that all that PROVES is they experience something, and not offer their experiences as evidence that a phenomena exists. This saves the need for "its weird isn't it"? It's not weird - its well established psychology.
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Post by pinkie on Feb 5, 2018 17:00:56 GMT
Martin
My point was the manufacturer was making a claim for their product. I cut and pasted that claim from their web site. It may be they don't know what they are doing and need to consult you for advice, but they are making that claim. They claim that their product means "any problems on your power line ... are eliminated"
Now I appreciate your view is that the reason that PS audio are making false claims for their product is that they don't understand how it works, but I didn't presume to tell them that, so in quoting their performance claims, quoted the entire section verbatim.
Clearly PS audio need to be made aware that their product which is designed to eliminate any problems on your power lines, is only capable of doing so if DC is present on the power line, by itself being protected from that DC using a DC blocker
1) That is very much NOT the impression PS audio give in their marketing claims - they strongly imply it is a "one-shot" solution for any and all power woes 2) It should be a pretty easy fix for them. With their skills they can knock up a DC blocker on the front end of the PS10 for pennies in parts cost
I think they should be made aware of this issue.
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Post by pinkie on Feb 5, 2018 14:39:04 GMT
I don't think I can make Bristol due to a need to be over for my parents house move and my sons wedding. I could send Arthur along... I'd love to hear what ps audio said about their £5000 dc blocker needing a £400 dc blocker in the front to work properly. I wonder if they'll put it in their product literature The P10 works perfectly well powered with a standard kettle lead and is a hugely successful product. It works properly as does all their equipment. Some customers have fitted better power leads and or dc blockers and reported an improvement, this is no different a scenario to any item of equipment. Pinkie why do you write such crap? I disagree chief. A fancy kettle lead is a designer item. A DC blocker carries out a specific function - removing unwanted DC from an AC power source. It may be valid to use a DC blocker to enable otherwise unprotected audio products like amplifiers , DAC's and turntables to run without impairment. The purpose of those products is to make music It is completely different for a product whose purpose is to allow you to control the power you supply to the products which make the music. PS have the following claim for their product "The PerfectWave P10 Power Plant takes your incoming AC power and converts it to DC, similar to what comes out of a battery, and then with patented PS Audio technology regenerates and produces new sine-wave-perfect, regulated high current AC power. In the process of regeneration any problems on your power line such as low voltage, distorted waveforms, sagging power and noise are eliminated." That is a specific product claim that "any problems on your power line ... are eliminated". The fact that DC offset is not one of the "for instances" changes nothing. A false claim according to you and your customers, who report that any DC problem on your power line will cause the device NOT to function optimally, and therefore not to eliminate any problem, but to produce power which is audibly inferior. Note, they do not claim to improve the power, or attenuate problems. The specific claim is to eliminate power problems. That must surely include DC offset. That is not consistent with requiring a DC blocker to be fitted in front for the regenerator to work in a normal domestic situation That you have wealthy customers happy to spend freely on gizmos which promise to enhance their enjoyment of the hobby is not a surprise - that aspect of human behavior has been observed by Hans Christian Anderson and is widely recognised. But that does not make it acceptable to make product claims like "any problems on your power line are eliminated" when that is apparently untrue. If Dave Cawley (what apt initials!) won't share with us, I might ask them myself.
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Post by pinkie on Feb 5, 2018 14:25:34 GMT
I have married twice. Both wives didn't like chocolate. Before that, I didn't think there was a woman on the planet who didn't like chocolate I met Sue internet dating. We chatted online and agreed to meet the same week - a complete exception for both of us. Sue was frustrated that I was due to go away that week skiing with my good friend Glenn(was best man at our wedding), and his wife Fiona and children - who I spent every Friday evening with in the George and Dragon pub, with my kids and had done so for years. Sue's children went to school with Glenn and Fiona's children and G&F had been friends with Sue and her ex for 15 years. Yet although both mixing in very close circles, we knew nothing of each other and met online We got married on 19th July - Glenn's birthday - so , as was traditional , I had to play golf on the morning of my wedding
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Post by pinkie on Feb 4, 2018 17:23:17 GMT
I don't think I can make Bristol due to a need to be over for my parents house move and my sons wedding. I could send Arthur along...
I'd love to hear what ps audio said about their £5000 dc blocker needing a £400 dc blocker in the front to work properly. I wonder if they'll put it in their product literature
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Post by pinkie on Jan 31, 2018 11:54:12 GMT
I'm sure you won't be disappointed Martin. I can't remember you being unlucky yet
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Post by pinkie on Jan 31, 2018 10:33:07 GMT
We had the main RCD in the road replaced today, because it was faulty, and that was how I got to see these mother -f**** fuses in the white box and thought...
Russ Andrews - where are you when I need you?
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Post by pinkie on Jan 31, 2018 10:13:31 GMT
I need more help with this mains installation, so that my system can resolve detail information (which apparently it doesn't just now) I've looked in Russ Andrews, and there are audiophile MCB's But on the left of each rail, that device is an RCD of approriate rating and surge for the devices on the rail - any ideas where? Consumer unit Then at the point the mains enters the house, there is the main RCD to protect the TT installation - audiophile options? RCD Now it gets trickier, since I need EDF approved versions of these - they are behind tamper-proof tags on the supply box in the road This is the main RCD protecting the cable from EDF to the house - I can find no audiophile versions, but its right at the start of all the electricity coming into the house, so crucial to my resolution of detail 20180131_105321Well, not quite right at the start. Behind the top white box are a couple of cartridge fuses, one for phase and one for neutral, about the size of 12 bore shotgun cartridges. Drawn a complete blank on audiophile versions of these 20180131_105327 Guess I'm doomed to keep missing that elusive resolution...
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Post by pinkie on Jan 29, 2018 9:28:43 GMT
I know its the end of January. HMRC's servers are grinding to a halt. Very large volumes mean submissions take minutes instead of seconds to be acknowledged. Because everyone leaves their bloody tax return to the last minute, even though you can reasonably submit any time from July (some even in April)
For me, as ever its bloody friends
2 musicians, one tennis partner, one sister, and 2 HiFi designers - one of whom sent me a very sexy CGI of a new product for release in May. If it happens (he has a poor track record, but I am impressed with his approach this time) I think it will be huge. The other had a new product due out in the first half of 2018 too, which I would like to get my grubby paws on. Could be an interesting 2018 in real HiFi
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Post by pinkie on Jan 28, 2018 18:21:59 GMT
I should have known someone would make a foo circuit breaker. And I could have guessed it would be RA. Given modern regs require rcd protection I expect they do rcds and rcbo's too
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Post by pinkie on Jan 28, 2018 16:05:55 GMT
Currently I use a balanced mains supply. At certain times of the day the mains became audibly noisy and measurable. Yes, I measured it, Richard. I introduced a DC blocking circuit which sorted out the noise and it’s presence did not impact on sound quality. Interesting. How much was your DC offset Greg? When you say your mains is noisy, do you mean your balanced power supply transformer is noisy? Adding a DC blocker to your BPS could only quieten the transformer in it. It wouldn't affect the sound of anything plugged into the BPS. The BPS is a transformer and would therefore have an output completely free of DC offset. (Which accords with your statement that the DC blocker didn't affect sound quality) BTW - your idea for better than foo-fuses (I am married to a teacher, and I suspect not all your own work!!) is already implemented here. It's like the flight deck of the fucking space shuttle here. Not a fuse in sight. ( I wonder if I could get audiofile circuit breakers??) Consumer unit ,
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Post by pinkie on Jan 28, 2018 13:27:02 GMT
I have little doubt that Martin has experienced an improvement to sound after fitting these blue fuses. I question whether actually, considering his set up he could make even better gains by doing things a bit differently along the lines I have suggested. I understand, Greg, and there seems to be an awful lot of opinion out there suggesting that I replace my fuses with soldered links because I have a radial. However, that was NOT the opinion of my qualified electrician. He was careful in certifying his work but also checking out the safety of my setup, for which I was grateful. Should the worst happen I know that my system is as safe as can be and unlikely to cause the issue. I think it would be more likely to be a regulations / insurance cover issue than safety. If you have a separate radial with a breaker at 10A (or even 16A) then your system is safe as a French, Dutch, Swiss installation. No fuses in my plugs - but all leads are protected by a dedicated 10A breaker. (The other issue, VERY unlikely to affect your HiFi, is leads with smaller conductors intended for protection by 3A fuses) But there might be an insurance issue in the event of a fire - based on regulations, hence your sparkies advice. Note BS1363 is specifically a British standard, not EU regulations, and so for example, CE marking of plugs is not appropriate.
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Post by pinkie on Jan 27, 2018 16:40:51 GMT
I have explained exactly why I needed a DC blocker then and no longer need one now. You explained why you fitted a DC blocker You explained that you had DC on your mains then, but don't have it now You measured it then, but haven't measured it now DC on mains is not constant. It is caused by devices being used and fluctuates (sometimes within the space of a few AC cycles). It is impossible to know at any one time that you have DC offset, or don't or how much, unless you measure it . (hearing a buzzing toroidal counts as a measurement of sorts) Measuring DC on mains is not "normal" or easy. You have 2 problems. Separating the AC and DC , and meter range. Ideally you need a meter which can show both simultaneously and auto-range the sensitivity The AC may be 240v and so the sensitivity would be 700v The DC is likely to be a few tens of millivolts. Maybe a couple of hundred. If your DC meter was set to 700v it would explain a reading of 1v - but that is noise (error caused by using the wrong sensitivity) If your electrician measured it using an appropriate sensitivity he would almost certainly have quoted a value in millivolts. A value of exactly 1000 would be surprising. But as I said - the situation will change from hour to hour and minute to minute, so one reading, even if completely accurate is of no value. You fitted a box and it changed what you heard then. I accept that. You no longer hear a difference when you fit the box now. I accept that. Exactly how do you know the differences are due to changes in the DC offset present on your mains?
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Post by pinkie on Jan 27, 2018 14:25:50 GMT
I think you'll find that quite a few forums don't let you challenge what people think they hear. They get shirty about it, as if it's some personal criticism that they don't take accurate steps to exclude bias. Criticise the forum owners views and 'whup' your gone. Gladly not here or other places where I post regularly. Pinkie, I doubt you'll get anyone who owns a fuse who'd take that test. You know blind tests are really stressfull etc etc (cont on pg17) My opinion, identify the difference blind, then you can subjectify how it sounds to your hearts content. Tell the world about it, sing it from the rooftops. But if one isn't prepared to do that, or provide measurements to back up a personal assertion, well..... I sort of agree, but (believe it or not) I'm mellowing. I share Wonky and Spica's view that its harmless enough and I wouldn't want to spoil anybody's fun. I'm fine with people hearing a difference themselves and enjoying all their gadgets and gizmos. It clearly makes the hobby for them. You are of course absolutely right that there is a certain defensiveness against any idea of proving anything - as though to move beyond mere personal subjective enjoyment and actually demonstrate something, would somehow sully the whole experience and leave it forever tarnished. This is fine if you are buying. More open to suggestions of snake oil if you are selling. But I think trading standards are clearly pretty laid back on this. My guys still prefer to reassure themselves as best they can with reasonably bias-free testing of any claims. I get a tad more defensive when the pseudo-science justifications after the fact come along, particularly when there is an implication that those who listen and find no difference either haven't bothered to try (not true) or have inferior hearing ***(very subjectivist - since our listening experience is clearly intensely personal and unshareable - unless you properly test it in a bias free manner). Dismissing the idea ( in the face of countless studies to the contrary) that the explanation may not be "objectivists" deafness or dogma, but the fact that there is nothing "shareable" to hear. And having worked a while in this racket, for businesses concerned to be objectively sure that differences were real, I am comfortable with the idea that you CAN prove a lot of these things. If you want to. There is no need to prove anything when its your hobby. Hear what you hear and enjoy it. But I find the things that could be proved (or made reasonable proper scientific sense anyway) more enduring and less prone to fad - in the manner of Martins life-changing experience with the DC blocker that faded away. *** actually I have very good hearing - measured. Just had my final ENT consultation (I hope) including a booth hearing test. My left ear (which I had had the troubles with) was 20:20 and my right ear was just 6db down at 14Khz and 18Khz - but I could still hear those frequencies. Not bad for 56!! And I always have a short fuse in January
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Post by pinkie on Jan 26, 2018 19:29:24 GMT
There's only one thing for it - a black-tie men only event of course ... Mine's the short one. It's January after all
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Post by pinkie on Jan 26, 2018 13:24:20 GMT
You subsequently admit that you have not tried any specialist fuses. All the rest of your post above is smoke and mirrors. What am I to conclude except that you have a baseless opinion? You seem to think that my findings are isolated. I have had several people over, whose hearing and opinions I value, and we can all hear the effect of changing power cables and changing fuses. I have also visited many other systems and heard the effects of cable swaps there, too. Now, I'll respect your findings when swapping cables - you didn't hear any differences. Fine. However, I will not respect your opinion on fuses as you really have no experience of trying them.Martin Sometimes I wonder whether you read what you write. I certainly wonder whether you read what I write. A few posts ago we established that a fuse cannot enhance the system. Anticipating a comment like the one quoted above, I specifically re-asked the question. The best fuse is accordingly no fuse. No fuse is the absolute ultimate off-the-chart platinum standard best fuse you can try(Or have you changed your mind, and are you now saying that I could enhance my french mains arrangements if I found a way to add fuses because they are better than mere mains cable?) My experiment describes comparing an ordinary fuse with no fuse, the very best fuse there is. The result was the same - no difference. And no surprise. No smoke. No mirrors. Just rational experimentation. Are you confident that if I gave you 5 identical mains leads, some with ordinary fuses, and some with a specialist fuse of your choice fitted, and you didn't know which fuse was in which lead, that you could reliably identify them by plugging them in to whatever you like and listening to whatever and however you like? Label the leads 1-5 and fit fuses on a roll of the dice. Even number = ordinary fuse. Odd number = designer fuse. How long would a demonstration of your ability to identify which leads had a designer fuse in take? I accept you and others hear differences when you listen. But I accept that what any of us hear is influenced by many factors.
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Post by pinkie on Jan 26, 2018 12:14:11 GMT
And I've reported my findings. The fuse has a definite effect on the sound quality of the system. P.S. please let us know which brands of specialist fuse you have tried and in which positions? I didn't try a specialist fuse (see my earlier question regarding "no fuse") As reported in another thread, Wonky and I tried swapping IEE leads on his last visit On your advice, we chose the IEE for the power amp as the one most likely to have an effect ( I have subsequently also tried the pre-amp) We replaced the regular UK IEE with a regular fuse which was plugged into a multiway UK adaptor (with a french plug on the lead to the wall) with a french (fuseless) IEE lead direct to a separate socket on a dedicated radial. So we replaced an ordinary fuse with no fuse. It made no difference that either of us could hear. This is not a surprise - I have no problems accepting the result. It is quite offensive at times how you label people who don't hear magic effects from improbable tweaks "objectivists", implying they own equipment to measure rather than listen to, and assume that they are unprepared to try. I purchased (bargain basement) foo mains leads from Mr Brook a few years ago, and found no difference. I tried no fuse and found no difference. Over the years, with my designer chums who all work for respected HiFi businesses, and whilst at PT whilst running it, and whilst a mere groupie, I did a lot of listening, and could hear a lot of genuine differences - blind and sighted. We liked to do blind tests of things which were in any way subtle, to reassure us that the thing tested was responsible for what we heard, independent of our expectations or other influences. My chums, as well as being engineers, were familiar with the science related to the human mind and sensory perception as well. Like Wonky - I have no issue with you discovering great benefits to gizmo's when you listen. It obviously enhances your experience of music. But I don't assume that the equipment necessarily is responsible for the differences heard and reported- especially where I try it myself and hear nothing. After a while (a lot of years) I have a filter for which things to try, and which to reject as probable foo, which helps me concentrate on what is likely to work for me, but I retain an open mind.
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Post by pinkie on Jan 26, 2018 11:06:21 GMT
And it does so magnificently. Every time. Unless there's a fault in the equipment it is protecting in which case, hopefully, it blows You're ignoring thermal non-linearity. It's the mechanism whereby fuses work. No I'm not. I'm reporting my findings on the performance of the fuse. The fuse has no effect on the performance of the equipment.
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Post by pinkie on Jan 26, 2018 9:52:52 GMT
The electricity has to come through this cheap, very thin strip of metal. And it does so magnificently. Every time. Unless there's a fault in the equipment it is protecting in which case, hopefully, it blows
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Post by pinkie on Jan 25, 2018 16:17:57 GMT
Good points Andrew, that I am not unaware of I try to make a point of telling any staff I express my frustration to that it is the system and not them I am frustrated with. And some things have improved. Telephone response times have been better, the dedicated agent hotline is a real help for SA PAYE (so WHY not provide one for CT and VAT???) And they appear to listen to some advice -particularly to build in agent access at inception (although they were stone deaf to thoughtful careful criticism of their MTD implementation, until Brexit stopped them in their tracks). Even now, they seem to think VAT will be simple, because businesses affected already file quarterly returns, forgetting issues like partial exemption, flat rate with major capital purchases, and a host of others requiring manual adjustment which don't just auto-fill from transactional systems. The auto-population of data should help when the system works. But , like the old joke about the Irish deciding to switch to driving on the right, but unsure if it would work, and so carrying out a 2 month pilot where only buses and lorries changed initially, and cars still drove on the left... HMRC have dripped in the PAYE side of the tax payers account. So I have a client who is self employed with income of about £40000pa , who is over 65 and has a state pension, and also has private pension plans which he hasn't yet drawn down. His private pension made an error transferring funds, and compensated him, and paid the tax on the compensation they paid. This resulted in them filing a PAYE return using a BR code, and this , together with his state pension "populated" that part of his taxpayer account. But the SA self employed part needs MTD, now not due to be implemented for him, to provide that part of his total income. So HMRC - because the system is supposed to be "Live" and "real time" send him an P800 telling him he has overpaid tax (although he has not yet filed an SA return for the year in question, which is not yet due.) They then automatically refund the "Overpaid" tax in 5 days from issuing the notice. But actually, when he files his SA return he is going to owe in excess of £6000. But when I break this news to him, he is adamant that he has overpaid tax for the year, because HMRC wrote and told him so.
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