seanm
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Post by seanm on Jun 9, 2018 7:54:29 GMT
Alan,
Sorry! I real life got in the way.... end of year, when all my exam classes go on study leave should be really, really easy... then things go pear shaped each year
I should get to it this weekend or the middle of next week since there is a bank holiday thing
Cheers Sean
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seanm
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Posts: 162
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Post by seanm on Jun 9, 2018 7:08:27 GMT
OK, my recent circumstances, (fixed term teaching contract in Northern Cyprus) means that the pursuit of real sound quality is currently not a priority or an option. Like Martin I have used Pi based systems for 3-4 years. I think defining factors, beyond the promise of sound quality are "choice", "low cost" and "ease/cost of transition/upgrade".... choice of add-on board and software distribution. In the UK I had two variants, a Hifi-Berry Digi+ feeding an (obviously limited) AV amp in the lounge and a DAC version feeding a lots of "bang for the buck" 2nd hand budget bi-amped power amp system upstairs. The DAC started as a DAC+ from hifiberry and progressed with the DAC+ Pro before settling on the first version of the Allo Boss DAC. The latter was much, much better. The underlying Pi boards have also been upgraded as I have made systems for friends. In all cases, the music was in FLAC format fed via SAMBA from a QNAP NAS Last August the DAC version, (Pi3 and Allo Boss) was packed in a suitcase together with Allo's Volt AMP "granddaughter" board and dragged to Cyprus on the plane!. A suitable case was added together with Mordant Short M10 speakers. (These were the smallest/cheapest bookshelf speakers I could find at short notice). a 4TB portable USB3 drive hangs off of the back of my router and pretends to be the NAS which stayed in the UK. Spare speaker stands came back with me on the next return flight. I live in a small apartment with neighbours, there is little sound insulation and the doors and windows are often wide open. There is more than enough sound to fill the room. This tiny system meets my needs very well... 10 months on, I might do things a little differently? active monitors? a different Amp board to give headphone access? However, the real aim was to bring my music with me and to use a system which allowed further development of Pi based players and my music collection. If I land back in the UK or elsewhere more permanently, I can simply drop the latest developments back into my old systems and continue/upgrade as money allows. I have alternated between Volumio and Moode Audio distributions... they are largely similar and since I always install to spare memory cards, I always leave a working system while I tinker recklessly. I am currently on Moode Audio but that is unimportant. In all cases, the players are controlled via either the web interface on a PC or any MPD client app on any android phone or tablet. Hey, I even automagically get play/pause buttons on my el-cheapo defunct Sony smartwatch 3 There is no doubt in my mind that significant sound quality improvements can be made through steps such as improvements in power supplies as Martin has done. Indeed Allo released v1.2 of the Boss which simplifies some of these issues Martin listed the other small computer boards that Volumio run on. I have not really thought about this, but I suspect that some of them might actually be a better starting platform for music playback... historically the Pi lacked Gigabit ethernet and go faster flavours of wireless etc. I do not have easy access to "bits" here... over the summer, when I am back in the UK, I might upgrade a few bits for the hell of it... better cheap speaker cable? v1.2 of the DAC? battery power? combined headphone solution? hardware volume control? All just for the sake of tinerking really. Photo 1Photo 2Cheers Sean
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seanm
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Posts: 162
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Post by seanm on May 31, 2018 9:09:16 GMT
The BBC has announced that there will be access to world cup matches in 4k/HDR via iPlayer www.whathifi.com/news/bbc-confirms-iplayer-4k-hdr-trials-2018-world-cupThe interest for me was the estimate that a 40Mbit/s broadband connection is required to get the full fat feed.... Back in the UK, I had had FttC for a number of years and was able to get 38Mbit/s. (I was a few hundred metres from the street cabinet at the point where each extra metre starts to have a real affect on your bandwidth). Minsters are fond of describing our country as having "World class broadband" and we see often see broadband definitions starting at 2Mbit/s for those in tricky rural areas. My 38Mbit/s in the UK, was always plenty for a family of 4, but now I guess one can argue that 40Mbit/s is the new base level requirement looking forward. Cheers Sean
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seanm
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Posts: 162
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Post by seanm on May 30, 2018 16:48:24 GMT
Do not forget routers and similar boxes... they are often reasonably capable "computers" usually run something derived from the "LRP" (The linux router project)
Sean
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seanm
Rank: Trio
Posts: 162
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Post by seanm on May 8, 2018 16:04:13 GMT
Thanks Alan, I will get on this....
Just need to sort out actual paid spotify membership... which is a little tricky since I live in Northern Cyprus (Turkish part), which is often not recognised as a country and so my location, IP address and credit card details are constantly not matching.... However, on the plus side the price for the Turkish subscription is a bargain, if only it let me pay for it
Cheers Sean
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seanm
Rank: Trio
Posts: 162
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Post by seanm on May 7, 2018 14:35:50 GMT
Given that my exam classes have all left the building and gone on study leave, my evenings are mostly mine again.
Last week, I successfully upgraded MoodeAudio to v4.1 . While this was risk free, (I always keep the working memory card to one side), it was potentially a little more involved process than before since it built itself in situ by dragging the required source code across the net.
Part of the reason for doing this, is to look at getting Spotify to work under MoodeAudio. A quick google suggests that there are a number of competing approaches based around different code bases.
Before starting my attempts, I wondered if anyone on here had made progress in this area or at least had an opinion
Thanks in advance
Cheers
Sean
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seanm
Rank: Trio
Posts: 162
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Post by seanm on Mar 19, 2018 19:02:21 GMT
Simon,
Both a Digi approach and DAC daughterboard approach should work. I guess, in terms of sound quality, it will be the performance of your Bushmaster vs a decent PI DAC.
I only have one part of the information.... I have Pi DAC experience, and experience of a older/inferior HiFiBerry Digi board feeding a cheap AV amp, I do not have experience of a decent external DAC
Martin has experience of a decent external DAC, But AFAIK has not her a Pi DAC
The good news is that both parts are cheap... could try the Digi first?
Cheers Sean
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seanm
Rank: Trio
Posts: 162
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Post by seanm on Mar 18, 2018 21:20:31 GMT
Martin,
While I have no idea about updates to the Digi board... adopting a USB (and why not USB C) connector for HAT power in makes sense to me
Cheers Sean
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seanm
Rank: Trio
Posts: 162
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Post by seanm on Mar 18, 2018 12:54:13 GMT
Dear All, Looks like the Raspberry Pi has been updated to the 3 B+... Nothing earth shattering... +200Mhz on the CPU, and it looks like we now have the AC flavour of wireless and Gigabit Ethernet... Probably not enough to replace an existing 3, but probably worth ensuring a planned future purchase gets the update www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-3-model-b-plus/The Allo Boss DAC, which I have and like, appears to have been refreshed a few months ago to v1.2... subtle yet sensible upgrades... e.g. 5V direct to the DAC is now via a USB C connector rather than some anonymous header thing... Also: - Latest generation ULTRA low phase noise NDK oscillators (SDA series)
- Optimized component layout
- New film capacitors on analog stage
www.allo.com/sparky/boss-dac.htmlThere is also a new "High End" DAC available.... available from Volumio shop etc www.terratechnos.com/products/terraberrydac/index-e.htmlI know nothing about this... other than it is about 4x the going rate for a Pi HAT DAC, but it does look interesting... and the best thing... any worthwhile developments are likely to trickle down to cheaper DACs from competitors. Cheers Sean
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seanm
Rank: Trio
Posts: 162
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Post by seanm on Mar 10, 2018 17:33:29 GMT
There is a fair bit of experience and support in this forum and unless you are using a bleeding edge DAC/Digi daughter card it is relatively straightforward.
Cheers
Sean
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seanm
Rank: Trio
Posts: 162
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Post by seanm on Mar 10, 2018 14:16:33 GMT
Tonedeaf,
I have used file based music for about 20 years... first MP3 (the best quality I could fit on the Hard discs of the time) and then all re-ripped to FLAC. In the UK, the Music was stored on a dedicated QNAP NAS. Currently, I am working in Northern Cyprus and hence travelling light. I have copied my music library to a 4TB USB3 2.5" portable drive which hangs off of a decent ASUS router. In both cases the music is made available as a SMB network share.
For around 3-4 years ago I replaced a SONOS system with Raspberry Pies.... I originally had two, one with a SPDIF digital out daughter card, this fed a digital input on the AV amp in the lounge. The other had a DAC daughter card which fed a pre-power amp system upstairs. I am on my 3rd DAC in this system. I started with a HiFiBerry DAC, then the pro version and now the Allo Boss. The latter was a significant improvement. (I note that this has been reworked to v1.2). I rather like this aspect... For £35-75, you can have fun swapping in a new DAC if/when they become available and since this is rapidly improving area, the latest is often quite an improvement over the previous one for little money.
Despite the SQ being very good, easy and significant improvements can be made by looking at the power supplies... for example, feeding the DAC with a separate quality supply or battery.
I flirt between two different music specific linux distributions... I currently favour MoodAudio, but I have also used Volumio. They are both very similar and the reasons for choosing any particular one are subtle... the differences will probably reduce as both mature.
With both distributions, and Unix/Linux in general, everything is very standards based with well defined interfaces. These setups have always run "headless", no monitor, keyboard or mouse. I control them either via a web browser on my PC or by an app on my phone. Both can operate simultaneously in parallel. The apps talk to "Mdaemon" (music playing daemon) and there are 101 apps for Android phones since this is a popular well defined standard. Again, I can flirt and mix and match without being tied to any particular one. Currently, I am using M.A.L.P.
The distributions run from 8 or 16GB micro SD cards, it is worth having a few of these since you can tinker with a new version of something on another card while leaving your existing working system untouched.
Since, I am travelling light, I have a further 50W amp daughter card which sits on top of the DAC and drives the smallest bookshelf speakers I could find quickly and cheaply. All in all very good for a system which came in my suitcase!
Cheers
Sean
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seanm
Rank: Trio
Posts: 162
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Post by seanm on Nov 5, 2017 7:54:37 GMT
The PI's are generally run "headless", (no display, mouse or keyboard etc). As Martin has said control can be achieved from any web browser on any device. But that is only part of it... The underlying music playing and control is handled by a process called "MPD" (Music player Daemon). This is very much in the Unix operating system style, in that it is a process with a well known protocol, a well defined interface and it does one thing and one thing well. Hence you can find a 101 clients for Android etc which will control it. The investment in a particular client is tiny.. takes 10 mins to set up and if you do not like it, move to another.
This approach is comparable with a good email protocol such such as IMAP where you can flirt with 101 clients on many machines and they all see a single consistent view of your email which is left on the server. You have no real tie-in with a particular client or platform.
All in all, from a user perspective, it works in a very similar way to a SONOS system
At the moment, I do not use spotify... my view of this world splits into 3:
1. The controller... any MPD client or web browser I choose today on any platform... no loyalty or real effort investment
2. The bits to music HW... A Pi with either a DAC or Digi Out board, I have several*
3. The music storage... Basically a NAS# full of FLACs (This is where the effort was put in... all that ripping and checking the quality of tags and album art)%
If a new or better streaming solution presented itself tomorrow, I would be hope it would just plug in and use 3 above. It would either replace, or work alongside 1+2 with no real wasted effort.
* One nice aspect of the Pi approach is the software is all contained on a microSD card which costs a few pounds. With an extra card, I can leave the working system alone, tinker with some alternative software and I will never be more than 5 mins away from a working system, (by simply powering down, swapping the known good SW back and restarting). Moreover, most of the HW is very affordable and is improving in leaps and bounds. While each generation of the HW has sounded quite reasonable for the money/convenience, there are/were fundamental flaws such as the quality of the power supply routing and clock jitter. These are being aggressively addressed and so big improvements are being made relatively easily. The Pi <-> HAT interface is generally well known and used. A new super-improved wonder DAC/digi board is typically £30-40 (The digi one is expensive in relative terms!) and is simply a swap and a bit of a tinker with the SW typically.
# It was a full NAS back in the UK, Currently, I am working abroad and travelling very light. There is a USB3 drive hanging off of the back of the router doing a very passable impersonation of a NAS
% This approach means that all systems, "main", "second", "bedroom" and to a point my car see one common music library
Cheers Sean
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seanm
Rank: Trio
Posts: 162
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Post by seanm on Nov 4, 2017 18:34:58 GMT
Gentlemen,
Thank you conducting this test and for posting the results. This is very interesting. As I've said before, not only are we getting a lot of music for the money, it's fun to tinker with and each upgrade does not break the bank. Also I believe that currently, we are still at a point on the curve where each inexpensive upgrade is having a large improvement on the sound quality.
Chris,
Pi2 vs Pi3, initially, I did not think that this would make a significant difference, However, then I remembered, the MoodeAudio, (which I just happen to prefer on balance) has a few experimental low latency alternative kernels which I think only run on the Pi3.
So while this was not a factor in today's tests, it might be something to think about when considering the relative merits of a Pi2 vs Pi3
Cheers Sean
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seanm
Rank: Trio
Posts: 162
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Post by seanm on Oct 27, 2017 17:37:54 GMT
Martin,
I have been wondering about this very subject.... This may help
Cheers Sean
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seanm
Rank: Trio
Posts: 162
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Post by seanm on Jul 17, 2017 10:39:46 GMT
Thank you for the responses so far... some good food for thought. Martin, the Volt is class D www.allo.com/sparky-eu/volt-amp.htmlSo far, I think that is has a lot of promise. Allo is a company to watch... they are redefining Pi DACs and Digi Outs all the time Cheers Sean
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seanm
Rank: Trio
Posts: 162
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Post by seanm on Jul 16, 2017 18:26:44 GMT
Dear All,
I will shortly be taking up a new job in Northern Cyprus. Initially, I will be travelling light. I want to take a mini setup with me. I have taken one of my Raspberry Pi3 / Allo Boss DAC combinations and added the Allo Volt Amp "grandaughter" card and matching acrylic case. All in all this makes a very compact 50W system which sounds rather good for the price/size and reuses existing kit.
Next up is speakers. I had an old 2nd hand Cambridge Audio Lusso 5.1 system to hand. Each speaker is about the size of a large orange. All things considered it sounded reasonable, but unsurprisingly it was totally lacking bass (I assume these speakers normally work with a subwoofer).
Next up, I swapped in some Gale Mini monitors which were borrowed from my son. These sounded much better and the bass returned.
Are there any suggestions for similar budget speakers which are as compact or smaller, sound reasonable and can be found second hand at a reasonable cost.
Many thanks in advance
Cheers Sean
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seanm
Rank: Trio
Posts: 162
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Post by seanm on Apr 1, 2017 9:52:17 GMT
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seanm
Rank: Trio
Posts: 162
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Post by seanm on Mar 17, 2017 20:42:59 GMT
OK, the Allo Boss DAC arrived yesterday. It took me about 30mins to nail it to a spare Pi 3 and install Volumio v2.118 It all worked straight out of the box as expected without a glitch. Sonically, my first impressions are very pleasing: Increased separation between channels, clearer separation between instruments. Acoustic guitars are particularly noticeable, clear distinction between up and down strums and imperfections and unevenness of the strings being struck. There are lots of little twiddly guitar bits: odd notes, I'd not noticed before.... There is also increased oomph and urgency to percussion. Obviously early days, but I'm pleased.
This has just been thrown together, and ultimately, I need to use a separate power supply for the DAC/Analogue/Audio part. Also, I need to take Martin T up on his kind invite.
Cheers
Sean
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seanm
Rank: Trio
Posts: 162
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Post by seanm on Mar 12, 2017 13:00:37 GMT
agreed, I will keep you posted. It's unlikely to have a box anytime soon!
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seanm
Rank: Trio
Posts: 162
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Post by seanm on Mar 12, 2017 11:49:32 GMT
I have ordered the Allo Boss DAC discussed above. It should be here in 5-7 days and was ordered via Volumio (Europe). It will be nailed to a spare Raspberry Pi3. I need to give some thought to the power supplies. Probably battery. In the immediate term, it will probably have to run the latest version of Volumio. and will replace a Pi2 / HifiBerry DAC+ Pro which is running the latest version of Moode audio. I should be able to run the two systems side by side feeding different inputs on the same amp/speakers. I will report back ASAP.
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