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Post by carlsworkshop on Nov 23, 2014 1:42:31 GMT
Ive always loved 78s and have collected a few across the years, some jazz and rock and roll etc. I wonder about eq and getting the best out of them so i thought there might be a few here with the experience to point me in the right direction . Thanks , Carl
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Post by ChrisB on Nov 23, 2014 9:11:57 GMT
You need a really flexible set up because, with 78s, by the time everything became standardised it was too late!
I've never explored playing 78s but I do know that you need to find a good way of cleaning used discs, especially if they've previously been played with steel or thorn needles. This is because they used to put an abrasive component into the shellac in order to help shape the stylus to the groove. This means that there will be extra 'stuff' lurking in there to make noise you don't want. Doing it right for any age of disc means having a range stylus profiles available.
Also, to play them, you need a deck with a speed control that is widely variable around 78. Your Garrard will not be adjustable enough to be able to play all discs properly - a Lenco is much more flexible.
I expect you'll need a preamp or phono stage with the proper eq curves or they wiĺl sound like they have too much bass and not enough treble. Normal tone controls are not flexible enough. Some of the bigger Yamaha amps and receivers of the 70s had mid range controls but I have no idea if this would work. You might need a mono switch too, depending on your cartridge and wiring choice.
I've always wondered if it's just a coincidence that 45 +33 = 78!
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Post by ChrisB on Nov 23, 2014 10:19:48 GMT
Thinking a bit more about this, maybe the only way to play them properly is on a wind-up!
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Post by carlsworkshop on Nov 23, 2014 11:10:26 GMT
Thanks Chris,i had a feeling it would get complicated ! I like the idea of a gramophone ,one with a massive horn if possible !
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Post by MikeMusic on Nov 23, 2014 11:28:27 GMT
Sort of thing that could go for buttons in a charity shop or on Ebay
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Post by MartinT on Nov 23, 2014 11:54:38 GMT
Something like a Graham Slee Revelation M would do the job, it has all the equalisation curves necessary. Together with a Lenco, that would give you a great 78rpm solution.
See here for more details and a list of curves used versus record labels.
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Post by carlsworkshop on Nov 23, 2014 14:35:34 GMT
Very nice indeed !
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Post by montesquieu on Nov 24, 2014 17:05:15 GMT
I have a dedicated mono arm on my Thorens TD124 for both LP and 78 ... for 78 I have been using some Shure M44G cartridges with various tip sizes (recommended and supplied by Expert Stylus) 3.2 mil and 3.5 mil of most use for my mainly pre-war classical stuff, but later 40s-50s 78s are better with anything from 2.5 mil to 3.0 mil. (The groove width used in manufacture varied over time.) I have a Miyajima Premium 78 on the way though, it will be waiting for me when I get back from Japan in December - it will be very interesting to see if an order of magnitude in price really generates a big improvement. (On list price anyway I got it for a sensible amount of ebay.fr).
A dedicated mono cartridge is useful for the same reason as it's good for mono LPs: it only pics up signal in the lateral direction in the groove, it will be quieter than a stereo cartridge used though this is partly addressed if you have a mono button on the phono stage or preamp, as there is some cancellation where groove noise is equal. (If you don't have a mono button though, a mono cartridge is really a must).
But you don't need to go to these lengths ... I got quite fine 78 reproduction from an old Garrard SP25 and one of the Shures, I just swapped in and out the larger styli.
One thing you should look at is something capable of handling the variable equalisation curves - prior to RIAA being selected as a standard in 1953 (ie at the dawn of the LP era) all record companies had their own curves - Columbia, Decca, HMV and so on. The curve is necessary to make signal fit on a narrow groove - the bass is de-accentuated according to a pre-defined curve (otherwise it would chuck the stylus out of the groove), and re-equalised on output. I use an Esoteric Re-Equalizer for the purpose - going between phono stage and preamp. Switched out it does nothing, switched in it functions as a mono button and also enables changing the shape of the curve according to predefined parameters (turnover point and rolloff). A manual is provided enabling dialling up of a couple of hundred different curves used over a 40 year period. This transforms reproduction entirely, bringing music to life in a a way straight playback just doesn't achieve. The Graham Slee pre recommended previously (or his cheaper Jazz Club which I owned at one point) does much the same thing only **is** the moving magnet phono stage, not an after-RIAA correction processor.
I should add a de-clicker at some point (Esoteric also do one) but actually in my setup the hiss noise is in another plane from the music and it doesn't really intrude.
If you are anywhere near Reading/Bracknell come over and have a listen to what you can do with 78 ... you might be surprised.
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Post by daytona600 on Nov 24, 2014 17:25:47 GMT
MOD: sales patter removed
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Post by carlsworkshop on Nov 25, 2014 0:00:38 GMT
Thank you Montesquieu for an informative and interesting reply . At present i am using a Garrard 401 with a lenco l75 arm on it but will in the near future be switching to a Grey 212,however i think the Lenco arm will do duties for 78 playback ,probably back home on the Lenco gl 75 .The amp is a newly found Tandberg 2075 which is quite versatile and will be staying as my main amp. I have been using a Sure M75 but will be looking to get a sure M44 for my 78s ( i have just remembered that i have an M70b and an m44 e but no stylus for either at present ) Once those bits are sorted out i will look at the eq solutions you have brought to my attention and will keep looking for more 78s in the meantime. Thanks for the invite but i live in Manchester unfortunately ,so a bit far from you. Thanks again, Carl
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Post by ChrisB on Nov 25, 2014 0:04:06 GMT
Inside that Tandberg is one of the best tuners ever made, Carl. Hang on to it - it's a good un. A really good un!
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Post by carlsworkshop on Nov 25, 2014 0:23:59 GMT
Hi Chris,im listening to it now ! Jools Holland has just finished and i must say the sound quality was excellent ! Its definitely one i want to keep,got it cheap as well,which was nice ! It drives the kefs with no problem and seems to be a good match for them.The Denon has gone to Sardinia believe it or not,it just didnt do it for me ! Im slowly getting there,slowly but surely !!!! Cheers, Carl
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Post by ChrisB on Nov 25, 2014 0:29:26 GMT
It needs a wide shelf though, eh?!
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Post by carlsworkshop on Nov 25, 2014 1:03:26 GMT
Its a big old boy alright ! Its an ex Granada unit that was rescued from a skip years ago and sat mostly unused until today. We brought it to life on a variac and hey presto, it lives ! !It was a bit grubby and dusty but its all working apart from some dodgy selector switches which sometimes engage and sometimes dont.The signal strength bulb is also not working but i expect they are pennies to replace. I've cleaned it up this evening and it looks a lot better for it.I love the blue glow it emits.Its a beautiful design to be sure ! Two phono inputs as well,one variable ,cant ask for more really.
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