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Post by MartinT on Oct 6, 2017 20:54:58 GMT
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Post by zippy on Oct 7, 2017 7:38:52 GMT
The P10 is around £5k, so my guess is the P20 will be around £8k
Anything of that price must surely be aimed at owners of 'super-fi' and not us normal people.
Is it really likely to do the job 16 times better than my PI AG1500 ?
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Post by DaveC on Oct 7, 2017 7:46:53 GMT
Is it really likely to do the job 16 times better than my PI AG1500 ? Honestly ? Yes Dave |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 7, 2017 8:44:35 GMT
Nothing is linear, remember the law of diminishing returns. However, based on the P10's performance, it's likely to be awesome. Oh, and £8k is nowhere near super-fi levels.
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Post by SteveC on Oct 7, 2017 18:33:09 GMT
Nothing is linear, remember the law of diminishing returns. However, based on the P10's performance, it's likely to be awesome. Oh, and £8k is nowhere near super-fi levels. "Err Ruth. Somethings come up! Do you mind if we put the wedding off for a couple of years?"  |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 7, 2017 21:37:04 GMT
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2017 9:55:47 GMT
Let us see how much of an improvement it is over the P10, which imho downside is the lack of overall headroom and its limitation to 1.8Kva maximum draw. which for £5k is bit mean.
Yes they do work well and make an improvement, lower noise floor, improved dynamics, greater separation, though a fair few owners in the twelve months have found they don't seem to produce a truly natural fluid sound. I am sure Martin will counter me on this.
They always give a safe sound, never going to offend anyone quality build and looks mean and purposeful on your rack.
They have seen a few issues with reliability, and not inexpensive repair if the regeneration section on both sides goes it is a serious £1500 ticket speaking from experience here.
the last few we have traded out at less than 50% of value, and if you shop around there are one of two outlets prepared to offer a 20% reduction on UK pricing if you put up some resistance lol
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Post by MartinT on Oct 8, 2017 10:09:29 GMT
Yes they do work well and make an improvement, lower noise floor, improved dynamics, greater separation, though a fair few owners in the twelve months have found they don't seem to produce a truly natural fluid sound. I am sure Martin will counter me on this. Well, firstly, I don't perceive that I need a P20 and only a home demo would prove it. Unfortunately, my hi-fi saving is going towards a 4k TV next! Secondly, the P10 is integral to the sound I am getting. My system is very fluid, musical and exciting at the moment so I can't agree that the P10 does anything other than accentuate the sound of the system components. If they're not fluid, the P10 isn't going to fix it. Saying all of that, the P10 needs good accompanying cables and a good power supply to do its job well. Thirdly, and I know I am going to sound like a tape recording here, power treatment is vital to system performance. I know you'll agree with that, Tony. If you skimp on feeding your system with good, clean, power then you'll never yield what it's fully capable of. |
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Post by MikeMusic on Oct 8, 2017 10:56:24 GMT
Apples and oranges maybe..
I found the Audio Magic box delivered a better sound than the P10.
Filters as opposed to regeneration. Which is best ?
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Post by SteveC on Oct 8, 2017 11:24:45 GMT
Apples and oranges maybe.. I found the Audio Magic box delivered a better sound than the P10. Filters as opposed to regeneration. Which is best ? ............................ or, a balanced power supply to source components? |
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Post by MikeMusic on Oct 8, 2017 11:29:21 GMT
Quite.
Another alternative in the mix: Rewire of the mains cable to the system could also lift sound quality
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Post by julesd68 on Oct 8, 2017 17:33:06 GMT
Martin, I don't profess to understand any of the electronics involved, but if your current regen unit gives you a perfect sine wave, how would this be of more use to you in your system? |
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Post by MartinT on Oct 8, 2017 18:28:25 GMT
There's more to it than that: it's about low source impedance and instantaneous/peak power delivery. Essentially, you want it to behave like an enormous, unlimited, power station. However, in real terms my P10 is not stressed and seems to peak at around 350W when I'm giving the system extreme welly, so it could be that the P20 would give me no gains.
Knowing what I've learned about power, though, I doubt it.
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Post by SteveC on Oct 10, 2017 11:50:30 GMT
Specifications from PS Audio:-
20 amp/15 amp choices
25% physically larger than P10
40% more output power than P10
Three times lower output impedance than P10
Three times more energy storage than P10
Twice the output devices than P10
Dramatically lower distortion than P10
Removes the miles of power cables between your home and the power station. The P20 is the world’s first device that is the equivalent of moving your home to within 50 feet of the city power station.
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Post by SteveC on Oct 10, 2017 11:54:01 GMT
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Post by SteveC on Oct 10, 2017 11:55:49 GMT
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Post by MartinT on Oct 10, 2017 12:00:00 GMT
Three times lower output impedance than P10 Three times more energy storage than P10 Those are the specs that suggest that it could sound better than the P10 even if I am working well within the P10's operating parameters. My average power draw is 300W when playing music, so that could map to somewhere approaching 1kW on short peaks. The P10 can deliver 1.5kW. I am not pushing it at all. Even so, from the numbers above, I would expect the P20 to sound better. |
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