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Post by MartinT on Jun 17, 2019 12:21:02 GMT
Does the Krell improve similarly if left on for long enough?
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Post by jandl100 on Jun 17, 2019 13:20:37 GMT
No. I've never come across another amp that does to anywhere near this extent. It suddenly blossoms after about 6 hours and seems fully opened up after 9 hours.
It's a bit of a pain, really.
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Post by jandl100 on Jun 17, 2019 13:22:39 GMT
Mind you, I met a guy a while back who is convinced that hifi gear should be left on for months before it reaches its full potential, and that substantial gains are to be heard.
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Post by MartinT on Jun 17, 2019 13:34:12 GMT
I leave my full system on over weekends - by Saturday evening it does sound better for having been on for 24 hours. The Belles has become slightly tepid and the P10 warm to the touch. It takes that long for the metalwork to warm up, and that depends to a degree on the room warmth.
During the week, only my streamer, DAC and preamp are left running. If I shut that lot down it takes a good few hours to achieve its best (mainly the preamp).
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Post by julesd68 on Jun 17, 2019 13:56:39 GMT
I must admit that I really don't miss the extended warm-up that my tube pre and phono stage both require!
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Post by jandl100 on Jun 24, 2019 7:59:26 GMT
Back to the Krell 400xi integrated amp last night.
No, it doesn't have the soundstage and imaging precision and believability of the Crayon amp, no amp that I have heard can challenge that. But the Krell isn't bad in that regard and it does have a truly magnificent dynamic sweep; Berlioz' Requiem was stunning, classical music doesn't get bigger and bolder than that ime. The 28wpc Crayon simply can't match that with my medium sensitivity speakers.
Hmm, what I want is a 290wpc Crayon amp. ... or maybe bi-amp, with the Krell driving the MBLs' bass units [xover 160hz] and the Crayon on the rest? The amps are very similar tonally, so that might work. Although on the very rare occasions I have tried bi-amping in the past with different amps it hasn't been convincing.
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Post by MartinT on Jun 24, 2019 8:10:27 GMT
There's simply no substitute for power when you need it.
What about a used Krell power amp? Or a Belles if you can find one?
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Post by jandl100 on Jun 24, 2019 8:31:36 GMT
There's simply no substitute for power when you need it. What about a used Krell power amp? Or a Belles if you can find one? I've not been convinced by the more usual Krell amps which are heavily biased into class A, ime solid state class A is at best just that crucial bit boring. The KAV series amps avoid that, for me, pitfall. I don't know about Belles, my one experience of ownership was very shortlived indeed, not my cuppa char at all. But your experience with a more recent example seems very different. So many amps out there - my suspicion is that replicating the Crayon's exceptional low power presentation in a high power amp would take more money than I would care to throw at it. Maybe a MBL amp would be worth investigating, it should be a good match with my speakers, after all. But they tend to come expensive and heavy, neither of which I am keen on. Anyway, the Crayon is convincing for most of my music choices, which tend to be on a small or moderate scale. Swapping a few cables for the big music is a bit of a pain but doable. I'll stay with the Krell for a few days and see how I get on with it. Immediate comparisons can highlight differences that in the longer term become less important; the Krell is a very fine amp in its own right.
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Post by MartinT on Jun 24, 2019 8:47:05 GMT
I was talking to Tom about his NVA A80s. Ever tried them?
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Post by jandl100 on Jun 24, 2019 9:10:55 GMT
I was talking to Tom about his NVA A80s. Ever tried them? Yes, I owned a pair for about 6 months - very good in their quite distinctive way. A very natural musicality. Kind of a "small" constrained soundstage. Ultimately, I felt I was kind of peering in to a fishbowl, rather than involved in the music. Nowhere near the imaging and rez capability of the Crayon. Good, though, but comes under the heading of been there, done that!
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Post by Pinch on Jun 24, 2019 11:42:20 GMT
Interesting - more or less the opposite of my experience (they've certainly had no trouble keeping up with resolution boosts elsewhere in the chain) but I don't have anything like the comparison base for amps that Jerry does.
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Post by jandl100 on Jun 24, 2019 16:56:23 GMT
Ah, but you probably haven't heard the Crayon amp, Tom. It really is quite exceptional in some ways, which makes it a hard beast to come up against. As I said, in my opinion the NVA A80 monos have a natural musicality and are very good. Nothing stays in my system for as long as 6 months unless I'm impressed by it and enjoy it!
I still hold out a hope that a fully warmed up Krell (kept on for a couple of days now, and it really is getting a bit toasty!) will close the gap sufficiently in terms of subtlety and finesse for me to be able to return to the happy days of a single favoured amp! Ideally the Crayon needs more efficient speakers than my MBLs.
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Post by julesd68 on Jun 24, 2019 16:59:58 GMT
Have you ever tried one of the big Plinius poweramps Jerry?
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Post by Pinch on Jun 24, 2019 20:52:18 GMT
Ah, but you probably haven't heard the Crayon amp, Tom. Oh of course - I'm sure your comparisons between your experiences with these various amps is entirely accurate. I just found the differences in our experiences interesting, particularly with respect to the soundstage - possibly the involvement here of the BMU would go some way towards explaining this. In any case, the Crayon sounds like something special (and doesn't hurt that it looks like it might take off)
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Post by jandl100 on Jun 24, 2019 21:11:24 GMT
Hmm, well, we differ on that, too. I think the Crayon looks like a deformed LEGO brick. Trying to convince myself that the Krell is satisfactory. The wife thinks the Krell is the best looking amp I have had. Functional with pretty corners, apparently. She likes 'functional', and not too many lights. Seems like I'll have to keep it.
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Post by jandl100 on Jun 24, 2019 21:18:26 GMT
Have you ever tried one of the big Plinius poweramps Jerry? No. I have had a Plinius 8200 integrated and wasn't at all impressed. I expect the big power amps are a different kettle of fish, though. It would certainly be interesting to try one, although I seem to recall that they do the first few watts in class A, and that seems to add a sheen of 'smooth niceness' that I am generally not keen on.
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Post by jandl100 on Jun 24, 2019 21:25:12 GMT
Ah, but you probably haven't heard the Crayon amp, Tom. Oh of course - I'm sure your comparisons between your experiences with these various amps is entirely accurate. I just found the differences in our experiences interesting, particularly with respect to the soundstage - possibly the involvement here of the BMU would go some way towards explaining this. In any case, the Crayon sounds like something special (and doesn't hurt that it looks like it might take off) I've a balanced mains unit, too. Although an Airlink 3kva model, not an NVA. I didn't have it when I had the A80 amps though - that would have been in the era of my PowerInspired 1500 regenerator [before it blew up].
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Post by julesd68 on Jun 24, 2019 23:10:46 GMT
Have you ever tried one of the big Plinius poweramps Jerry? No. I have had a Plinius 8200 integrated and wasn't at all impressed. I expect the big power amps are a different kettle of fish, though. It would certainly be interesting to try one, although I seem to recall that they do the first few watts in class A, and that seems to add a sheen of 'smooth niceness' that I am generally not keen on. I'll be steering clear too if there's any Class A shenanigans involved!
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Post by MartinT on Jun 25, 2019 6:48:56 GMT
Most amps are class AB as class B would sound horrible due to crossover distortion when both transistors are turned off around the zero crossing point. Therefore, there are always a few Watts of class A before it switches to class B to drive the big swings. It's just a matter of how much and how well implemented it is.
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Post by jandl100 on Jun 25, 2019 7:16:54 GMT
OK. I suspect some class AB amps are designed to deliver more class A than others, they are often advertised as such and sound it to my ears. Pass Labs is a good example with their power amps. Certainly their older Aleph 3 and more recent, and to a lesser extent, X150 models were dynamically dreary affairs. And the much vaunted Monarchy class A amps are a surefired cure for insomnia for me. And Electrocompaniet, and my old Krell KSA50. The list of solid state class A snooziness goes on. I'm convinced of it even if no-one else is. A lot of folks actually seem to like it, which is an ongoing source of bafflement to me. But maybe they are the same folk seeking a 'smooth' and/or 'relaxed and flowing' type of sonic delivery. Neither of which sound like real live music to me. For whatever reason, class A valve amps don't seem to suffer this fate.
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