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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 11:01:48 GMT
Interesting new product is getting a lot of positive feedback on the Linn forum. It seems at first sight to be a clever idea to reduce friction using magnets. My physics knowledge isn't good enough to know whether it makes sense in engineering terms.... www.tiger-paw.com/tranquility Tiger_Paw_Tranquility by losenotaminute, on Flickr |
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Post by jandl100 on Jan 29, 2017 11:17:04 GMT
Aided and abetted by one of our very own forum members, too. Fame at last! As for the magnetics. Yes, it should reduce bearing pressure if implemented to do so. Improved sound quality? I've no idea. Most changes make a difference, including bearing mods, so I expect this would as well. Possible downsides? - mechanical interactions are complex -- maybe it could take aspects of the mechanical performance out of the linear regions of operation they were designed to be in and so make things unstable to small variations where before they weren't .... dunno. Probably not.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 11:27:19 GMT
Aided and abetted by one of our very own forum members, too. Fame at last! As for the magnetics. Yes, it should reduce bearing pressure if implemented to do so. Improved sound quality? I've no idea. Most changes make a difference, including bearing mods, so I expect this would as well. Possible downsides? - mechanical interactions are complex -- it could take aspects of the mechanical performance out of the linear regions of operation they were designed to be in and so make things unstable to small variations where before they weren't .... dunno. Probably not. I didn't realise you were involved - tell me more please. The argument for less friction meaning less bearing noise passes the smell test, and the weight of the platter is not affected so presumably speed stability is not severely compromised either. There must be a trade-off between various forces and their impact on the sound, this might be a clever approach but I'm not convinced that it would be all that earth-shattering. I'm not tempted to tinker with my TT at the moment, my setup sounds awesome to me (Wagner this morning was sublime). However, I do like to see these new innovations keeping the higher end of the turntable market healthy. |
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Post by jandl100 on Jan 29, 2017 11:31:26 GMT
No, no, not me. I meant fame for the forum for having such an illustrious member. However, I have to say that if Wagner is sounding sublime, then there must be something seriously wrong with your playback system.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 11:41:27 GMT
No, no, not me. I meant fame for the forum for having such an illustrious member. However, I have to say that if Wagner is sounding sublime, then there must be something seriously wrong with your playback system. Pardon my ignorance, but who are you referring to? Beauty is in the ear of the beholder! |
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Post by jandl100 on Jan 29, 2017 11:46:11 GMT
"Pardon my ignorance, but who are you referring to?"
Well, it's not really appropriate for me to link names to user IDs.
I shouldn't really have mentioned it.
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Post by MartinT on Jan 29, 2017 11:55:19 GMT
Could you describe how it works and what is the turntable compatibility?
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Post by jandl100 on Jan 29, 2017 11:59:25 GMT
It's designed to fit in the sub-chassis of a Linn Lp12. read the linked article  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 12:07:56 GMT
Could you describe how it works and what is the turntable compatibility? It's two magnetic discs that repel each other. I think, the bottom one attaches to the suspension and the top one supports the top plate. Friction is reduced by about 90%. It only fits the LP12. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 12:08:55 GMT
"Pardon my ignorance, but who are you referring to?" Well, it's not really appropriate for me to link names to user IDs. I shouldn't really have mentioned it. Fair enough, it would be inappropriate to "out" someone without their consent, even if you are outing them as a genius! |
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Post by MartinT on Jan 29, 2017 12:26:33 GMT
It's two magnetic discs that repel each other. I think, the bottom one attaches to the suspension and the top one supports the top plate. Friction is reduced by about 90%. It only fits the LP12. Thanks. |
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Post by Stratmangler on Jan 29, 2017 14:18:54 GMT
That's an interesting looking mod for the old fruit box.
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Post by ant on Jan 29, 2017 14:19:04 GMT
Where is the 90% of the bearing noise going though? Is it just not being generated in the first place?
Presumably a standard bearing generates noise which goes into the subchassis where the bearing sleeve is attached to it rather than staying in the platter assembly.
If it generates 90% less noise in the first place then great,the less bearing noise to deal with the better. if it shifts it elsewhere by decoupling the platter assembly from the bearing then does it stay in the platter? The sides of the sub platter shaft will still be in contact with the bearing sleeve
An intriguing idea that they must have looked at for a long time to get right
I did look at a similar principle with some feet I made a few years ago, its alot more difficult to get right than it first appears so this product must have been looked at very carefully
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 14:25:39 GMT
Where is the 90% of the bearing noise going though? Is it just not being generated in the first place? Presumably a standard bearing generates noise which goes into the subchassis where the bearing sleeve is attached to it rather than staying in the platter assembly. If it generates 90% less noise in the first place then great,the less bearing noise to deal with the better. if it shifts it elsewhere by decoupling the platter assembly from the bearing then does it stay in the platter? The sides of the sub platter shaft will still be in contact with the bearing sleeve An intriguing idea that they must have looked at for a long time to get right I did look at a similar principle with some feet I made a few years ago, its alot more difficult to get right than it first appears so this product must have been looked at very carefully I think the 90% figure relates to the amount of friction, whether this leads to a 90% reduction in noise is unclear to me. I'm also not sure how accurate the 90% figure is - the website says "about" and it must be quite difficult to establish. If it's anywhere near as good as the reviewers are saying, then it would be a very cost effective upgrade to my old fruit box. |
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Post by Stratmangler on Jan 29, 2017 14:28:06 GMT
Thinking about it, if the 90% reduction is due to the bearing spindle being levitated (and it only needs to be a clearance of a few microns) then the remainder of the noise is going to be due to contact noise keeping the bearing vertical.
Such a fundamental noise reduction has got to be good.
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Post by MartinT on Jan 29, 2017 14:28:37 GMT
I tried making feet from repelling neodymium disc magnets. The bastard things want to snap around and pinch you badly at the slightest provocation. Just too difficult to get right and levelled.
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Post by ant on Jan 29, 2017 14:34:53 GMT
I think you are right, personally i think that bearing noise is something that is not given enough thought in Tt design. Alot of decks ive looked at seem to have bearings that have been designed to be good enough.
With the lp12 and its weedy standard motor less dynamic resistance from the bearing may mean that the platter inertia can have more of an effect on speed stability. It will lose less of its inertia through friction and the motor will be fighing less to get it going.
A rather clever way to do it
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Post by ant on Jan 29, 2017 14:39:55 GMT
The feet I made had a shaft coming down from the top piece into a hole in the bottom and the 2 had repelling ring magnets rather than neodymium ones
Without the shaft the entire idea was unworkable as it slipped sideways too easily
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Post by John on Jan 29, 2017 18:10:38 GMT
The salvation does this and it was a nice improvement over the orginal bearing I think the mod was released about 2 to 3 years ago
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ynwan
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Post by ynwan on Jan 31, 2017 7:23:02 GMT
The author of this design built his first working prototypes ten years ago; there is a DIY Audio (forum) thread discussing it. Of course the Platine Verdier predates this but uses large (very large) ferrite magnets.
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