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Post by daytona600 on Jan 5, 2016 13:40:46 GMT
if you are unhappy with your mains generate your own no rfi , emc , surges , peaks , brown outs just clean 240v 50hz free energy the sun never sends you a bill Solar PV system transformer solar inverter isolates battery system & free regen unit bulit in & web browser + hifi sounds better + surplus sell to the grid & get paid tax free for 25years total waste of money cost installed £4k paid £1500 per annum for selling suplus to grid for 25years £ 37500 - £ 4000 = £ 33,500 tax free earnings & free leccy for a quarter of a century total waste of money £ 33,500 buys a lot of music , concert tickets & Hifi add in what i would pay for 25years of energy say £ 500 per year x 25 = £ 12,500 £ 12,500 + £ 33,500 = £ 46,000 www.microgenerationcertification.org/
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 14:09:00 GMT
That kind of networking overlays a high frequency signal in the Gigahertz range onto the mains. It's likely to cause problems (which is why I won't use them at home, but then my house is Ethernet wired) and the best thing to do is to disconnect them and compare the sound. Both a BMU and regenerator are likely to do some filtering, although I know from experimenting that even the regenerator allows some of it through. The best bet is not to have such signals on your mains. I do all I can with passive plug-in filters to kill such noise before it reaches my system. Martin, The plan is to try disconnecting them tonight and seeing the effect on the system. I have netgear adapters with pass through power, but I don't use this for the HiFi. Any suggestions for effective passive filters? They could be a much cheaper solution. My APC performance surge arrest mains block is supposed to have a filter for EMI and RFI, although according to the spec it lets power line network signals through - I have only just found out!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 14:12:00 GMT
if you are unhappy with your mains generate your own no rfi , emc , surges , peaks , brown outs just clean 240v 50hz free energy the sun never sends you a bill Solar PV system transformer solar inverter isolates battery system & free regen unit bulit in & web browser + hifi sounds better + surplus sell to the grid & get paid tax free for 25years total waste of money cost installed £4k paid £1500 per annum for selling suplus to grid for 25years £ 37500 - £ 4000 = £ 33,500 tax free earnings & free leccy for a quarter of a century total waste of money £ 33,500 buys a lot of music , concert tickets & Hifi add in what i would pay for 25years of energy say £ 500 per year x 25 = £ 12,500 £ 12,500 + £ 33,500 = £ 46,000 www.microgenerationcertification.org/Scott, I would have to clear the largest part of half an acre of woodland to make the panels viable. I have considered a "solar farm" at the bottom of my garden but I need to check French legislation first - and that is not easy.
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Post by dsjr on Jan 5, 2016 14:25:27 GMT
I've never had hum issues from a Naim amp, nor have my friends. We've had a lot of Naim kit (chrome bumper mostly, but also some Olive) I'd estimate I've owned between 40 and 50 Naim amps myself and lived in 18 different homes over that period. I disagree with the term "bad" too. Naim and Exposure amps with Holden and Fisher transformers are some of the finest sounding amps I've had. In fact the loss of H&F seemed to signal a downturn in sound quality for Naim amps. I'm not the only one who values the Holden and Fisher transformers so I wanted to point out that DSJR's conclusion that they were "bad" is subjective opinion rather than universal truth. Can I come back to you and clarify a couple of points please?
In London and surrounding areas, buzz from *some* Naim transformers was really, really bad and not consistent from sample to sample. My first Naim power amp was a CB NAP160 in 1980. At home in West Herts, the transformer snarled on and off during a listening session, so badly I couldn't use it. At work in Wigmore St, it was as quiet as a mouse! The other one, with pretty well adjacent serial numbers we had, was rather better at home. We used to tell our customers to try to hide the amps away if they had buzzing issues. I assure you Andrew, that I'm not making this up and I sold the brand, for pretty well twenty five years and more - 1977 to 2004...
It was thought that by the Olive period, the transformers were rather better - I think it was how Naim specified the internal doping, but I can't remember now, but two cases stay in my memory. A lovely chap in Leicestershire bought a Naim based system with 82 preamp. The main items were silent, but he complained and made a huge fuss over the little 82 remote circuit power supply which used a frame transformer, which hummed gently to itself. To their credit, Naim selected a replacement and all was well with the client. The second client bought a big system from me including a Naim CDS-2 with supply. The shop demo one, perfectly behaved there, had buzzing in the client's home which changed by the second almost with a EEE-AWWW - AHHH kind of noise, so bad was his village location. The samples he bought and took delivery of were totally awful - far worse. In comparison, his factory fresh Krell FPB300 was as silent as a mouse, as was the demo unit we'd borrowed from KJ W1 for his home dem. The Naim CD player and rather over-warm toned ARC LS25, were returned in favour of a Theta DaViD and matching modular processor set initially to two channel. They were quiet too and absolute fidelity better than the previous two exalted items as well (speakers were SF Amati Homage with VDH Wind cables, audio interconnects by Transparent from memory - Music Link Ultra I think).
As for Naim designs, I believe the power amp was nicked from a Wireless World article on a 1950's RCA PA amp circuit which had been tweaked (not altogether successfully, hence the short cap lifetimes in places on the board, as well as the obviously knackered supply caps, especially in early examples - I think they now use non polarised film caps instead on the amp boards in their current models) around PNP? transistors in the 60's I think. the preamp circuit was and still is, even more archaic, with a single rail 24V supply and heavy band-limiting, when practically everyone by this time, including Quad, had gone over to a dual rail + and - supply (I think) in the 44.
Nice to know that Holden & Fisher were easily able to make quiet transformers too. I remember the early 80's Exposure amps as sounding fuller-bodied and warmer toned than Naim CB models. At the time, the 'conditioning' meant that Naim was right and 'everything else' was wrong, but in hindsight, the Exposure as more truthful and the Naim harsh imo... Current Naims have a better-than-ever midrange, but below mid-bass there's less emphasis and I still find the trable rather grainy and 'grey,' which is a Naim characteristic throughout I found.
Andrew, I'm really not challenging anyone and maybe this Naim-transformer issue is area dependant - it was certainly widely discussed amongst home-counties dealers as despite what you'd think, we did all know each other and share known time-wasting customer details.. As for sonics, I appreciate you wouldn't be in a queue for NVA, so for good used bargain amps that in my opinion leave practically all 'classic era' Naims for dead, may I suggest one of the Krell integrateds (KAV300i and better, the 400i) for the kind of sound that Jerry likes (both amps can be got for under a grand now). You love Exposure, so that sorts out the 'beefier' toned amp suggestion at similar money but I have to say I still deeply love the better Quad power amps when passively driven and 606mk2's (bigger supply, toroid transformer and still UK made) can happily drive a four ohm load all day to over 200 Watts per channel.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 14:44:39 GMT
Cheers Dave. It may well be something that afflicts some areas rafter than others, but I've had just about every incarnation up to the "back to black" era including frame transformers and all have been quiet. No issues from others I know up here either, so there may actually be ONE good thing about living this far North after all I think the other point worth considering is whether hum in some situations automatically makes a transformer bad. I recall RD suffering hum at home from his amps before building the BMU. To me it wouldn't necessarily make the transformer bad, just suceptible in some situations. I think think was my main point........and to extol JF Exposure lol Later Naim amps just don't appeal to me. I find them a bit bland and ordinary. Some find them better "balanced" (see what I did there?) I've had mixed results with Krell. Not keen at all on KAV300i, KSA100 or KSA80. Loved original KSA50 but early JF Exposure IV is about on a par. I still really rate NVA amps but these days I really want a 1 or (at a push) 2 box amp including phono stage.
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Post by MartinT on Jan 5, 2016 14:55:38 GMT
The plan is to try disconnecting them tonight and seeing the effect on the system. I have netgear adapters with pass through power, but I don't use this for the HiFi. Any suggestions for effective passive filters? They could be a much cheaper solution. My APC performance surge arrest mains block is supposed to have a filter for EMI and RFI, although according to the spec it lets power line network signals through - I have only just found out! The problem is that mains networking and passive filters (like the Isoplugs) are mutually incompatible. You either do one or the other, but don't try networking AND filters because your networking will end up very unreliable. Power line networking is getting more reliable with each generation, which means it can penetrate filter blocks and such. As I say, decide on one or the other. If you mean the Netgears run on PoE (Power over Ethernet), this is of no consequence as it's DC and won't interfere with anything. If there is any way you can accomplish your networking using wi-fi, then my suggestion would be to go with that, delete all the powerline stuff and disperse passive filters around the house. Your hi-fi will love it.
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Post by dsjr on Jan 5, 2016 15:01:41 GMT
Andrew, I'm just hoping we can find some middle ground and discuss it without wanting to tear each other apart - I think I may have burned my boats with Jerry sadly at the moment.
You're quite right regarding the Docs own BMU - and I was going to mention it but my post became an essay yet again. His huge box has a dozen sockets on it of varying types and with the original transformer, there really could be a loud buzzy hum, which came and went during the course of my visits there, usually on Saturday afternoons. His reverting to the standard [edit due to senior moment] - 1000VA one has removed this issue. Even my early BMU varies, although it's quiet during the day, only making its presence felt at post eleven pm time.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 15:10:51 GMT
Life's too short and hifi too unimportant. Plus you're a really nice guy so no fear of that. It's good to have polar opposites in taste as it reminds everyone how subjective this game really is
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 15:13:50 GMT
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Post by pre65 on Jan 5, 2016 15:19:09 GMT
Why would you want to purchase something to cure a problem you might not have ?
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Post by Eduardo Wobblechops on Jan 5, 2016 15:50:04 GMT
A couple of friends use the Airlink units and a very happy with them. Do bear in mind they may be a little noisy in operation depending on how your mains is, so hiding it away in a cupboard or similar may be necessary.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 15:57:43 GMT
Why would you want to purchase something to cure a problem you might not have ? Exactly .... although sometimes you didn't realise you had a problem until it went. Which is why I am only enquiring; the cat isn't dead just yet
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 15:59:44 GMT
Anyone with experience of Airlink units care to comment A couple of friends use the Airlink units and a very happy with them. Do bear in mind they may be a little noisy in operation depending on how your mains is, so hiding it away in a cupboard or similar may be necessary. Noisy in the sense of transformer buzz - or would there be something else to be mindful of?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 16:26:16 GMT
Martin, what do these plug in filters remove - is it mainly DC?
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Post by MartinT on Jan 5, 2016 16:37:18 GMT
No, they don't do anything with DC. They partially remove mains-borne noise and interference by sinking it to neutral or earth. The more units you have around the house, the more effectively they quieten your mains.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 16:41:01 GMT
OK thanks, not seen them before. What is the name of the filter in your image please?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 16:44:09 GMT
Just worked it out - I couldn't see the 'I' but I'm guessing it's an IsoTek filter? Probably no use to me as I already have an Isotek Isol-8.
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Post by MartinT on Jan 5, 2016 17:02:41 GMT
It's an IsoTek Isoplug. There are others by Russ Andrews, PS Audio and so on. Again, mixing them is good as they each work on slightly different frequencies.
I have a regenerator, don't dismiss their effect as they do different things in different ways.
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Post by Sovereign on Jan 5, 2016 17:05:34 GMT
The sound on sound article was from several years ago and therefore referring to stand alone balanced power long before nva decided to build one (or eduardo for that matter) It is worth noting that the reason for studio's using balanced power was to tackle ground loops and not to clean mains. "they are used in studios aren't they" is often put forward as evidence for their magical properties in" improving " sound. But the primary original reason for that was fixing hum problems in an environment where equipment from many sources, often with chassis ground leak problems would be used. This was the reason I originally looked at getting one. As the article noted - they can fix ground loops, but even in that professional environment should only be used if properly understood and appropriately configured and designed. Ironically, on the only 2 occasions I have listened to music through a system using balanced power there was a loud hum which was being tolerated. On the 2nd occasion I intervened to fix it. (it was capacitive coupling of mains from the apple laptop power supply - fixed temporarily by running it off batteries) And there are other ways to fix ground loops - and I have used them, so I no longer currently have a need to consider balanced power. Slight correction there Richard. As you say it was the apple laptop PSU making a slight hum with a hiss I being heard through my speakers. This used to happen even when I didn't have a BPS. Even with BPS in place the laptop was at no point plugged into the BPS. I'm not trying to have a dig at all, but I can't remember you being underwhelmed by my system you kept on commenting about how much you liked it and the balance that it gave you I think after hearing my system you went home and started to tinker with your system to get more of what you heard at my house.
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Post by Eduardo Wobblechops on Jan 5, 2016 17:08:05 GMT
A couple of friends use the Airlink units and a very happy with them. Do bear in mind they may be a little noisy in operation depending on how your mains is, so hiding it away in a cupboard or similar may be necessary. Noisy in the sense of transformer buzz - or would there be something else to be mindful of? Yes, there can be some transformer noise.
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