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Post by speedysteve on Mar 24, 2021 20:50:03 GMT
Sorry didn't Snip-it at the time.
It's dB. 0 at the peak of the plot.
The 2nd order XO passed the 'most stringent' Eva Cassidy vocal test with flying colours.
Not quite so with the 1st order.
These Le Cléac'h horns load differently.
I guess that's because the throat angle matches the driver exit angle.
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Post by MartinT on Mar 24, 2021 21:38:43 GMT
I guess that's because the throat angle matches the driver exit angle. Ah, I've just clicked. That's what's unusual about them. |
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Post by speedysteve on Mar 24, 2021 22:14:48 GMT
I guess that's because the throat angle matches the driver exit angle. Ah, I've just clicked. That's what's unusual about them. Hmm do you mean the Le Clèac'h horns I made? I could have made them with a wider throat angle, like the tractrix profile are. I wanted to try same angle as the drivers for these. |
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Post by speedysteve on Mar 25, 2021 19:35:13 GMT
All I can say is wow.
I've now got them playing just right.
The toe in, as prescribed by JMLC himself, doing the X/O in Najda a bit higher up and with 2nd order slope.
It's really paired the drivers and horns together.
I did try Najda X/O years ago on the S2s with the Tractrix horns. I preferred the cap solution.
That was the original V1.1 Najda board I had.
For some reason it tailed off a bit dB level wise after about 7KHz, both channels the same!
I never got to the bottom of that - so I didn't use it!
I'm now on the later V1.3 Najda board.
No such problems.
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Post by MartinT on Mar 25, 2021 20:03:44 GMT
Do you have any passive crossover components still in place?
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Post by speedysteve on Mar 25, 2021 20:32:46 GMT
Only passives now are a 1KHz cap on the Raal Lazy Ribbons.
The S2s play open (no X/O) and the Raals take it from there to 50KHz (they claim).
You need quiet amps to do this, straight into 116 - 118dB/W horn loaded compression drivers.
The drivers are JBL 16ohm, S2 15ohm, Raal 14ohm.
So cap values are not the usual.
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Post by speedysteve on Mar 31, 2021 22:41:04 GMT
Spurred on by the Le Cléac'h upper mid horn improvements and having got the measuring mic out, I took a critical look at the bass side of things.
This room! Big boom at 29Hz (+24db), that can be dealt with by PEQ cutting at that frequency.
Big suck out 43Hz (would need some 15 or 18dB poured in to level), this means changing the gain structure to cope and is not a good solution SQ wise.
The other way is to cut both sides of the 43Hz suck out and come down to that dB and boost the now reduced overall level back to match the other channels. This works quite well.
I moved my listening sofa back about 50cm. I'm then in a less troughy zone.
Less leveling needed = cleaner bass.
When I moved here (5 years ago), I experimented with various positions for the tapped horns mouth exits.
Best I found then was farthest away from me, firing upwards in the corners.
One configuration I didn't get around to trying was one tapped horn turned around so the mouth is nearer the sofa.
Bit the bullet and moved the mid horn and stand (25-30kgs) and an awkward lift. Then using stone age rollers under the right tapped horn, I moved the mouth to the desired test position.
Disaster, worse measurements and testing with my favourite bass tracks confirmed, not the right direction.
I then thought why not rotate the mouth through 90 degrees to fire in to the room (back in the corner position).
Perhaps this would cause the tapped horns to compliment each other, break up spending waves, I don't know.. nothing to lose!
This was a success especially when measuring both horns together.
Bass below 60Hz is not directional and most music play both speakers in mono at these sub levels.
This was great, have me a very nearly flat 20Hz to 90Hz!
The huge peaks and troughs banished.
Some of the bass around 35 - 40Hz that I could hear before is now as well defined as it was in the previous house/room.
There's a new dexterity and effortless musicality to the bass too.
Renewed bass listening confirms.
It pays to be curious and try stuff!
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Post by speedysteve on Mar 12, 2022 8:50:00 GMT
This guy speaks the language of effortless audio.
I would love to try the 31.5" approach to sub 60Hz, one day🙂
There's room in the middle..
Low excursion is definitely where it's at.
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Post by MartinT on Mar 12, 2022 11:23:39 GMT
Nice. It would take a very tightly controlled power amp (and system) to make that driver work well. 60Hz crossover!
Thing is, he's playing records!!!
Yes, low excursion has always been your byline and there is much to commend it.
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Post by speedysteve on Mar 12, 2022 11:31:25 GMT
Yes, he talks of electronica and deep bass though. I suspect he has digital sources too. He did talk about D amps, don't need much power could of watts, but high damping factor must be important. Max cone excursion in a tapped horn is very little. 1mm or so and that would be at theoretical max output - never go near that of course in the real world. Those drivers - made by hand to order, Japan, mega bucks.. www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-31-woofers/fostex-fw800hs-31.5-super-woofer/Reproduction FS is 1.5Hz?; Then further down in the T&S parameters, FS is 25Hz.. that's more normal given its size. |
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Post by MartinT on Mar 12, 2022 11:54:21 GMT
Yow, that's an expensive driver!
I'm surprised the Fs is as high as 25Hz.
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Post by karatestu on Mar 12, 2022 11:57:15 GMT
Qts 0.69 VAS 1473 litres. Gulp.
OB use then ? Imagine the size of the box
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Post by speedysteve on Mar 12, 2022 12:01:55 GMT
Yow, that's an expensive driver! I'm surprised the Fs is as high as 25Hz. Vitavox or Goto sort of prices.. You get much more real estate though😂 There could only be one, in most rooms.. FS is relative to size. My Eminence Kappa Pro LFII are 35Hz. 18" would be a lower. Interestingly it's not low FS that works best in a long bass horn / tapped horn. There's a sweet spot around these frequencies. To get to 20Hz with his 31.5" driver you saw the size of the ported enclosure. Danley sound labs who make all sorts of tapped horns etc have been busy with 'home' speakers. Tom Danley is hugely knowledgeable and has helped the DIY community a lot with bass / enclosure knowledge. I'd love to hear these two, some day, sigh! Not horn bass, but...  I've been wanting to get into FIR processing on the bass, but it uses gobs of processor power! If Najda creator Nick hadn't disappeared in Bolivia 2018, we might have got there...  |
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Post by speedysteve on Mar 12, 2023 0:55:24 GMT
I've recently been messing about with the Bubble UPnP android app.
Very impressed!
I'll swear it sounds different / better? than Qobuz within Volumio / RPi and I2S in to my DACs, and ditto with Qobuz from its app using my modded ChromeCast Audio as renderer with optical feed to the DACs.
I quite like the Bubble interface too, once I'd found Play all from here within a playlist or favs.
On an old Android tablet it's smoother / faster than Volumio too!
I came across something a little odd this evening! Not sure it should do this..
First I selected a track from Local and Cloud / Qobuz menu and connected to the ChromeCast Audio (render dev) from the playing now screen. All normal and fine!
Then back to Local and Cloud / Qobuz I selected the same track, and viewed it in the playing now screen - was not started yet.
The track was playing away on CCA still.
I then selected Volumio as render dev and from Playing now started the track playback.
What I got was the same track playing to both CCA and Volumio, a few seconds more advanced on the CCA (the time it took to go select and connect to Volumio renderer).
I could then seamlessly switch between Volumio playback (via RPi / Kali -> I2S) and CCA -> optical with Najda (no delay in feed, no clicks or pops), and evaluate them back to back on the fly. The volume was the same on both as well - handy!
Very interesting!
Which do you think sounded better?
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Post by speedysteve on Mar 13, 2023 1:12:15 GMT
I received the 2 Lan to optical converters and Single Mode 1m cable.
Keen to try it, I only plumber linear 5v power into the clean side.
I could immediately hear a difference!
Thanks for the help John.
Will clean power the other side tomorrow, soldering involved🙂
Other news,
The IFI Zen Streamer arrives tomorrow. This will be tested using Coax SPdif input.
I also received confirmation from Lucian that WaveIO will work receiving a USB feed from the Sonore Ultrarendu streamer.
I asked him if the Sonore would work with WaveIO. He wrote, "yes it can as long as your stream is acting as an USB host (which it does!).
In this case WaveIO card becomes a "slave" and will receive the audio
data sent by your streamer."
This is excellent news - it means I can run a Sonore Ultrarendu to WaveIO and then feed that straight into Najda with I2S (Direct I2S pin to pin).
It will mean removing the RPi and Kali, but I'm keen to try new things.
I have a Sonore Ultrarendu arriving end of the week.
I did not ask him if the IFI Zen would work, but assume it will - can always try it..
A IFI Zen vs Ultrarendu run off will then be possible.
I may also seek out a Mutec 3 USB in due course..
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Post by John on Mar 13, 2023 5:41:28 GMT
You are really going for it on the digital front end be interesting how you will get on with them
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Post by speedysteve on Mar 13, 2023 7:38:05 GMT
You are really going for it on the digital front end be interesting how you will get on with them Yes, after years of not doing much in that area, I got all enthusiastic. "You only live twice, Mr Bond" - Zen and Rendu?😂 |
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Post by John on Mar 13, 2023 7:41:10 GMT
Both are good
I had the micro rendhu nice to setup and on a similar playing field to the Limetree Bridge
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Post by speedysteve on Mar 13, 2023 7:56:29 GMT
One question; the Lan to optic converters came with Single Mode Single cable Bidi adapters.
The vids all show 2 cables being plugged in.
Did I get the wrong ones?
Seems to work fine.
I tested on my laptop and down and uplink are the same speed as with no optical conversion.
Reading up, it seems the single cable solution is better if you are transmitting over very long distances (reduced cable costs), and use laser instead of led.
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Post by John on Mar 13, 2023 8:04:57 GMT
Depends on the units I think
I got two mode cable but think Martin uses one mode cable
It would not connect up if the wrong mode
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