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Post by speedysteve on Nov 29, 2018 19:34:41 GMT
Tonight's fun and games will be playing Spotify premium off against Tidal hifi in a head to head through Chromecast Audio..
Firstly I'll say this about Tidal, all the hassle of old, trying to use a laptop streaming with it near the hifi and lack of remote controller on phone or tablet (unless you subbed to Room as well), are gone! Seems they eventually listened..
The Android app interface is quick, stylish and clean. It's far too.
Let the games begin.
I'll report back soon.
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Post by speedysteve on Nov 29, 2018 21:09:07 GMT
First thing is, this is on a Chromecast Audio. Other streaming solutions may give different results.. First up Paradise and lunch - Ry Cooper. Fool for a cigarette... What I hear is a slightly cleaner, less rounded sound on Tidal. The vocals are slightly sharper too. Guess that the frequency our ears are most in tune with after all.. On to Beatles come together.. Same story as above. The guitar riff that really breaks out in my left horn stack really punches. Both are good but again Tidal is slightly more hi fi. Adele's Million years ago.. Her vocal is cleaner, more etched on Tidal, no question. When she lets rip it's a joy on both compared to via my laptop.. Don't know why that is, but it is what it is.. Onto Johnny Cash's - When the man comes around (as used in the FBI troopers being taken out when they attack a terminator scene on the Sarah Connor Cronicles..) Again and the more I listen, Tidal wins more easily. It's richer more resonant, easily equal to my Flac streaming laptop on this track. Next up Kingston Wall's You. The stand out here is the attack on the drums when they kick in. The above differences I've written also stand, but the drums, the drums.. Tidal wins.. Low's Death of a Salesman.. Wow the higher res really plays in. There's lower noise or the background is quieter or something. Tidal just gives you the goods, nothing more, nothing less. Yello's Stay with Heidi Happy. Yup Tidal wins. More dynamic, less noise, cleaner. The Who, Eminence Front up next. Sounds good on Spotify.. The intro is just cleaner on Tidal. That makes it sound more musical. Or more of the music comes through.. Louis Armstrong and Duke Ellington, Black and tan fantasy.. Haha not available on Tidal! First one so far.. The Beautiful American is on both but on a different album.. Ah hear Spotify wins as it has the beautifully remastered version. Richer, tonally, dynamic, better job of stereo mix, superior in every way.. Good Havest, Charly.. Spotify sounds great and as is not there on Tidal, Spotify wins.. Much of my beloved Scandinavian music will I fear be missing with Tidal.. Anders Glenmark, Regnet is on both.. Better on Tidal. Eva Dahlgren En plats pa Jorden and Blackshear tracks.. Closer this one. Bit more command on Tidal and less noise around the music. Pixies Hey. Lower noise floor in Tidal. Spotify is punchy though. Suite for solo Cello no. 5 bwv, 1027. N/A on Tidal. Was directed to others.. La Femme, Always in the sun. Cleaner and even more punchy on Tidal. So, you get the picture. This could largely be down to the implementation in Chromecast Audio. But boy oh boy does CA with Tidal make a convincing case for itself sound wise for me. If I can live with its catalogue long term I can't say.. Evil Urges and Lissie's unplugged album are not available on either service.. Tidal need to stop copying what Spotify have methinks and go and get the real hifi sounding tracks we like - eh Martin?
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Post by MartinT on Nov 29, 2018 21:48:55 GMT
There's something about Evil Urges as I've just checked and it's not on Qobuz either. What gives? No Lissie Unplugged and all.
I'll try some of your track comparisons tomorrow using Spotify versus Qobuz.
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Post by speedysteve on Nov 29, 2018 22:02:36 GMT
Yeah they must be pulled by the artist or label somehow. Perhaps they are hardcopy best sellers..
It would be great if Spotify did a hifi sub with 1 being hifi and the rest lower res for phones, Echo, Sonos etc.
Tidal do a family package. Only £5 more than the usual hifi. But and it's a big but, Tidal isn't on Echo or Sonos.. So no dice for us for that.. Whoops, tell a lie, all my echo and Sonos devices are there in the Tidal app .. can I ask Alexa to play on Tidal too?
Ah but none of my Amazon Echo devices are there at the moment.. time to Google..
I'll try Tidal Hifi on Sonos Vs Spotify SQ tomorrow.
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Post by speedysteve on Nov 30, 2018 0:15:38 GMT
Googling it's seems there will be an Alexa skill for Tidal in the new year here. May already be available on the US. So Tidal on ALL Alexa supported devices voice controlled should be possible, just like Spotify / TuneIn etc. Perhaps Tidal shall go to the ball Will be a hard sell to my daughter's who are currently on family Spotify though.. Also included in the Alexa update : Stereo pairing. So two Echo's or Echo dots etc can make a stereo pair..
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Post by John on Nov 30, 2018 5:09:13 GMT
Thanks for sharing Steve I suspect most people will have similar results
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Post by MikeMusic on Nov 30, 2018 10:09:40 GMT
Thanks Steve
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Post by speedysteve on Nov 30, 2018 18:21:43 GMT
We've been doing some comparisons between Tidal and Spotify on the Sonos systems we have. Pretty much across the board the findings on my main system hold true. It's less noticeable but definitely there. Had daughter listening and she confirmed the same. We can definitely hear artifacts (and I call them that for want of a better word), that are present on Spotify that are not there on Tidal. We are not imagining it - Did blind tests too, to try and catch ourselves out..
It's interesting to try and define these artifacts we're hearing.
I define them as softer slightly more grainy vocals. It's not much, but there. I could also describe it as a sort of air or 'breathiness' around the vocal, that shouldn't be there. When you've heard it without, it's a little bit in the way.
Then there's the slight clarity and dynamics side of it.
We didn't think it was going to possible to hear a difference to be honest, but we do.
Tidal use, in the Sonos app at present, is not as well integrated as Spotify is.
I'm also running into more road blocks song catalogue wise..
None of current artists I miss on Spotify are on Tidal either.
Still Tidal sounds good..
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Post by speedysteve on Dec 1, 2018 21:33:35 GMT
Tonight's activity was to recreate in Tidal a playlist I first grew in Jriver that I used to test things as I evolved my system. It's not that representative of my music taste, which varies with the way the wind blows but at some point or other I listened to these tracks / albums, sang or tapped along I managed to recreate it almost entirely on Spotify.. The Spotify list was used to test Martin's RPi kit when he was here.. I'm now using it to evaluate Spotify Vs Tidal. It's also interesting to gauge what's currently missing on these streaming services on quite a narrow music taste. What's missing: Spotify Evil Urges - My morning jacket Eric Kehoe - My Destroyer Blues for the fisherman (Ronnie Scott's) - sad a little bit. Milcho Leviev (there is another version) Tidal Evil Urges - My morning jacket Eric Kehoe - My Destroyer The 4 seasons: violin Concerto in F Minor Drottningholm baroque ensemble Who's been talkin'? Lucky Peterson ( only a live version available) Can't get used to losing you - Andy Williams. There is a later duet though.. there are shed loads of albums but I can't find that track.. Lullaby - Low (well I can't find it by searching) A decent sounding These Boots are made for walking - Nancy Sinatra Suite for solo cello no. 5, BWV. 1027: I. Prelude Johan Sebastian Bach Blues for the fisherman (Ronnie Scott's) - sad a little bit. Milcho Leviev (there is another version So not that much missing. Not as much as I thought. But much of the content is mainstream.. Here is the full playlist in Spotify And in Tidal tidal.com/playlist/239b5d32-2521-4d20-b141-10f0720bcb98Also here are some screen shots from Tidal..
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Post by MartinT on Dec 1, 2018 23:54:29 GMT
Good work, Steve. I still reference your Spotify list, too.
I intend on building my playlists in Qobuz to replicate my Spotify ones, but there's little point until Volumio fixes the Qobuz Connect bug so that I can use their app.
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Post by speedysteve on Dec 2, 2018 10:13:20 GMT
Interesting Martin. That's cool It really shows that Spotify have been doing all this longest. Their app is a bit slicker than Tidal and more stable! I had Tidal freeze up a couple of times last night, quit all together once too. The music never stopped as Chromecast is doing the heavy lifting.. streaming wise. I must say I never have music dropouts due to WiFi. The are no competing other properties around here though. I saw this little extra Takes Lan connection and feeds it to CA via USB. Thought I'd give it a go to convert to Lan. Can't hurt can it? I'll probably tap into the power wires to the CA to bypass the crappy wall plug supply and give it back linear like it has now.. Don't mind breaking into a £30 piece, if I brick it so be it Should be easy enough to Frankenstein it and get at the 5v part, so no mains voltage needed. More to report soon..
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Post by MartinT on Dec 2, 2018 18:25:02 GMT
I did listen to some of your choices, my notes above. Unfortunately, none of them were in hi-res on Qobuz and, as you can see, Spotify is well up there with 16/44 in terms of sound quality with barely any differences. This tallies with all my findings so far.
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Post by speedysteve on Dec 2, 2018 19:43:46 GMT
I did listen to some of your choices, my notes above. Unfortunately, none of them were in hi-res on Qobuz and, as you can see, Spotify is well up there with 16/44 in terms of sound quality with barely any differences. This tallies with all my findings so far. Interesting. Gotta wonder if some systems sense compressed and don't really try their hardest as it were, to allow some differentiation? Rather like the minimum alcohol price in Scotland meant that the cheapest wines were almost as expensive as much better fair. So what did some supermarkets do? Yep, they raised the price of the more expensive wines to retain differentiation by palette and price. I would not put it past the likes of Google etc.. What was the thinking behind choosing Qobuz? Interesting article (written nearly a year ago though) www.the-ear.net/features/tidal-v-qobuzAs neither or Spotify have 'Evil Urges' they are all sadly lacking still Another bug on the Tidal app to report is once the end of a playlist is reached and you select another track, say by searching, but I think it does it from a playlist too, it can drop the CA and you have to reselect it to resume playing. It often then chucks you into the track 3/4 or so through it.. Clumsy.. Spotify does not exhibit these problems, so it's not Chromecast Audio..
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Post by MartinT on Dec 2, 2018 21:01:58 GMT
What was the thinking behind choosing Qobuz? Good question. Now that I have Spotify as a very good baseline, I've been looking for a source of hi-res streams to supplement it (as well as the continued hope that Spotify will one day go hi-res). Qobuz appeared to have a better range than Tidal. I'm not so sure of that now, and I'm disappointed at how many albums I know to be mastered in hi-res (e.g. they have SACD or DVD-A releases) but are not on Qobuz in hi-res. It's quite frustrating! Is Tidal similar? All my findings so far mirror what I found with SACD and DVD-A discs compared with CD. Marginal improvements, a few outstanding ones, but generally not night-and-day differences over good CDs.
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Post by speedysteve on Dec 2, 2018 21:14:46 GMT
I've not really explored Tidal enough yet to say about the extent of hi-res albums. I do find surprisingly many of the older fair to be remastered. I like the remastered versions. I'm listening to Roxy Music Avalon now and it is excellent. Pretty much whatever Tidal has remastered ditto Spotify or the other way around. I have found many actual albums to be missing from Tidal, but that track I remember well and want to hear they have on a remastered compilation or other.. Tidal is indeed mostly for the US younger market. Here are the latest artist recommendations from Tidal. It doesn't seem to adjust to your listening much at all tbh. I played a few bars of each of the 4 songs for each artist that comes up. Some more than a few bars.. Unsurprisingly much was rather bassy (I like) Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Rihanna feature.. My system did a good impression of Jessie's rig, right out of Breaking Bad.. fewer flashing lights though BTW. Do you like the lyrics assistant in Spotify? It's a bit of fun..
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Post by MartinT on Dec 2, 2018 21:20:18 GMT
You are not selling Tidal to me!!
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Post by speedysteve on Dec 3, 2018 8:26:03 GMT
You are not selling Tidal to me!! Hehe - I'm not trying to / no my job
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Post by speedysteve on Dec 5, 2018 13:21:34 GMT
The Chromecast Audio Ethernet / power adapter has arrived. I'll first plumb it in as it is and evaluate if there is an improvement with it verses over WiFi with the standard power supply. If it proves good, I'll look at removing the mains and giving it a linear 5Vdc supply. I can already see where my tools will get purchase to open the casing up Other testing: I played Spotify Premium with all the best settings Vs Tidal HiFi against each other on my laptop with my top of range Sennheiser ear buds. Same tracks same mastering (as per the info) etc. Tidal won hands down which is not surprising as every effort to stream Spotify on a Windows laptop I've made in past, proved unsatisfactory. It's not that Spotify wasn't acceptable, it sounds okay. It was just that every time I switched to Tidal is was, .. oh, that's cleaner, clearer, less congested, more definition, more HiFi.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 5, 2018 13:40:40 GMT
Yep, Spotify on a laptop/PC is very average.
Spotify from a decent (superclocked) streamer is a different ballgame.
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Post by John on Dec 5, 2018 13:54:59 GMT
When I was using Windows Spotify was very average and that was using a dedicated pc fanless with linear power supply
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