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Post by stellabagpuss on Mar 17, 2023 10:23:32 GMT
Peter Belt If his name is ever mentioned, to many, an overload of adjectives spring to many mind. And of course you need to be of a certain age to remember to reaction that Peter Belt caused back in the mid 1980’s. Sadly Peter Belt passed back in 2017 aged 87, his theories and discoveries really did set fire to a overload of opinions, and you have to remember, this was at a time there was no internet or forums, indeed it was a time when many hung on to every written review word of HI-FI magazines. So why raise Peter Belt name? Simply I have been interacting on TAS I find myself touching on findings that seem well..... From the church of “Beltism”. How many time in the last year has word Graphene, Shielding, Black CD-R etc in recent times this year? The feeling of “Déjà Vu” has crossed my mind, and although I have joked about “White Men In Coates” at the mention of Peter Belt, and can’t help think that some of his ideologies were not so crazy. So I would like to open the debate the about Peter Belt, did you try his products?, did you meet him? Were you too young? And have you simply been influenced by forum statements by opinionated views? Was he a visionary? I would suggest firstly you need to revist some websites and re read some articles of course, you may be learning some of this for the first time. First place and there are many online rabbit holes about Peter to be read is indeed his official site pwbelectronics.co.uk/And one site I found was a great read.. www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/sep05/Snark.htmOne thing I can promise...You will laugh a lot, and then you will find a crumb of information that will get you thinking. I thought this would make a good subject to dip in and out on TAS, everyone can have an opinion which is great, take it further and try some of his ideas out, inject some humour and be serious if you need to be. My only time I gave one of his products a try was back in the mid 80’s, when I believe HI-FI Answers gave away free foil samples, to be cut into triangles and placed on objects like the inside of CD’s ,Turntable Head Shells and light switches. This was an incredible ballsy thing to do at the time, we where then in asked to report your findings as part of a survey for the next months additions, I wish I still had the outcome to it all. My findings that I couldn’t hear any difference, but on the CD test, I found it slightly more relaxed, it was very hard to express really at the time, but I didn’t buy into the products, in retrospect, I was probably too young, and my equipment simply was up to the task of revealing the things we can resolve these days. Have fun, and I look forward to your views..... Damien |
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Post by MartinT on Mar 17, 2023 10:33:58 GMT
Perhaps PB was ahead of his time? Or he was as mad as a hatter. I'm really not sure.
I remember trying his sticky triangles many years ago, a freeby from Hi-Fi Answers. I didn't hear any effects, but then my system was not then capable of high resolution.
Some of his ideas (folding the corner of a sheet of paper, putting one sheet under the leg of a table) seem to require a suspension of disbelief. Other items, like Morphic Message Foils or Quantum Rainbow Foils, just make me smile.
Maybe one day we'll hail PB as ahead of his time. Or just a crackpot.
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Post by MartinT on Mar 17, 2023 10:58:07 GMT
This stretches my credulity...
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Post by speedysteve on Mar 17, 2023 11:27:17 GMT
This stretches my credulity... Sweet Jesus! 🙂 |
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Post by stellabagpuss on Mar 17, 2023 11:46:07 GMT
Well it didn't take long until some pressed the Nuclear Button.
The question is why put such a bizarre claim out, and reality it something anyone could try.
Is this the power of suggestion? And if it did work for yourself, is that a negative thing?
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Post by MartinT on Mar 17, 2023 11:50:37 GMT
Is this the power of suggestion? And if it did work for yourself, is that a negative thing? I think it must be, or else my understanding of physics is severely flawed. Then again, try explaining quantum entanglement or superposition. |
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Post by Tim on Mar 17, 2023 11:58:47 GMT
This stretches my credulity... I just tried it, I was very sceptical to be honest but crikey dikey, that's absolutely amazing what a difference . . . . . I think I need a new box of superlatives.  |
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Post by stellabagpuss on Mar 17, 2023 12:18:35 GMT
Is this the power of suggestion? And if it did work for yourself, is that a negative thing? I think it must be, or else my understanding of physics is severely flawed. Then again, try explaining quantum entanglement or superposition. Indeed Martin...Crazy indeed. lf you read,it even mentions the belief of taking a photo, is similar to stealing your soul! Well l did promise entertainment... Now where are those old photos 🤣 |
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Post by HD Music & Test on Mar 17, 2023 13:32:52 GMT
All I'm going to day here is this back in the dim and distant past I visited PB with an another very well-respected industry luminary to say it was 'interesting' was doing a disservice. The guy was absolutely certifiable 500% barking mad along with his close wing commander in pottiness Jimmy 'Psychosis' Hughes whom I've also visited his place in the Barbican. Another disciple of the PB school of eccentricity. Still at it to this day, but much more reserved due to his mentor now being no longer with us
There are basic principles in signal integrity that he (PB) was well versed and well applicable in but the rest really? FFS NO he was a loveable rouge with a wicked sense of humour.
BUT some of the S+++E him came out with was drivel of the first order plus a large side helping of alien dirt box diving on Mars.
I turned to the gent who I was with he just smiled and whispered 'Roll with it' I mean CJ Ross would be in convulsions, Amir ' 47 ulterior motives ASR would have need at least 6 rounds of Defib.
Seriously the guy was a on a different planet via worm hole from another diemsnion, the pièce de resistance for myself were the black dots on the windows and the walls I had to make an excuse and leave, my tongue had tram lines in it.
Great personality and fun to be with but really?
I’m know for some left field views and the odd bit of twilight zone, though I do back it up with some in depth genuine research, but even PB will shall ever remain the chief pointy head of the conclave in the Dojo of audio tweakery & way-out theorem of audio system improvement.
Like Max T / Tim De P one of the great characters in the industry
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Post by speedysteve on Mar 17, 2023 13:33:25 GMT
Who was it who wrote the camera never lies? Lol
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Post by palace on Mar 17, 2023 13:49:57 GMT
All I'm going to day here is this back in the dim and distant past I visited PB with an another very well-respected industry luminary to say it was 'interesting' was doing a disservice. The guy was absolutely certifiable 500% barking mad along with his close wing commander in pottiness Jimmy 'Psychosis' Hughes whom I've also visited his place in the Barbican. Another disciple of the PB school of eccentricity. Still at it to this day, but much more reserved due to his mentor now being no longer with us There are basic principles in signal integrity that he (PB) was well versed and well applicable in but the rest really? FFS NO he was a loveable rouge with a wicked sense of humour. BUT some of the S+++E him came out with was drivel of the first order plus a large side helping of alien dirt box diving on Mars. I turned to the gent who I was with he just smiled and whispered 'Roll with it' I mean CJ Ross would be in convulsions, Amir ' 47 ulterior motives ASR would have need at least 6 rounds of Defib. Seriously the guy was a on a different planet via worm hole from another diemsnion, the pièce de resistance for myself were the black dots on the windows and the walls I had to make an excuse and leave, my tongue had tram lines in it. Great personality and fun to be with but really? I’m know for some left field views and the odd bit of twilight zone, though I do back it up with some in depth genuine research, but even PB will shall ever remain the chief pointy head of the conclave in the Dojo of audio tweakery & way-out theorem of audio system improvement. Like Max T / Tim De P one of the great characters in the industry Whilst I find the cold photos, folded paper difficult to fathom, they were right about super tweeters I read the original article by Jimmy Hughes & fitted super tweeters as soon as I could obtain the cap's resistors & horn piezo tweeters, I still use a variation with my OTA Quad 57's. |
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Post by Slinger on Mar 17, 2023 14:03:02 GMT
Just a thought, but suppose Peter Belt had floated the idea that "special" fuses could improve system-wide resolution (or whatever they claim now) by alteriing the way electricity propagates through changing the behavior of electrons via something called "inductive quantum coupling", and not only that, but this technology was so powerful that even an electrical chain several miles long could be fundamentally improved with nothing more than a single fuse.
What would your reaction have been?
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Post by speedysteve on Mar 17, 2023 14:06:40 GMT
Just a thought, but suppose Peter Belt had floated the idea that " special" fuses could improve system-wide resolution (or whatever they claim now) by alteriing the way electricity propagates through changing the behavior of electrons via something called " inductive quantum coupling", and not only that, but this technology was so powerful that even an electrical chain several miles long could be fundamentally improved with nothing more than a single fuse. What would your reaction have been? "as you claw the thin ice" |
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Post by MartinT on Mar 17, 2023 14:08:53 GMT
I'd have given it some thought and listened to one. The rest is history.
By the way, the pointed "even an electrical chain several miles long could be fundamentally improved with nothing more than a single fuse" isn't what happens, but it does improve the quality of the power going into the component.
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Post by Slinger on Mar 17, 2023 14:17:41 GMT
... By the way, the pointed "even an electrical chain several miles long could be fundamentally improved with nothing more than a single fuse" isn't what happens, but it does improve the quality of the power going into the component. That's an almost verbatim quote from the Synergistic Research website, Martin. I wasn't stooping to " making shit up" just for effect, or for laughs. It's what SR actually claim. |
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Post by HD Music & Test on Mar 17, 2023 14:19:22 GMT
Just a thought, but suppose Peter Belt had floated the idea that " special" fuses could improve system-wide resolution (or whatever they claim now) by alteriing the way electricity propagates through changing the behavior of electrons via something called " inductive quantum coupling", and not only that, but this technology was so powerful that even an electrical chain several miles long could be fundamentally improved with nothing more than a single fuse. What would your reaction have been? Fair question and at the time I would have said bollox Paul.
However there are a couple of reasons why a single strand of wire can sound differnet, although its not the wire per say lol
Would I pay £4500 for a fuse er no, thats just bloody stupid, buy beter kit, would I spend £200 on a fuse, providing I felt I can discern a positive difference that I liked and it was repeatable yes I would.
I met him actually three times, he was charming, charismatic and had a magnetgic aura about him think of a sliver fox with the older ladies flocking around him if he played piano at a bar. Never said he wasn't likeable at all.
Liken it to the corbin's of the labour party, they will always been people that are willing to be led.
However he had a following and those people feel it works for them thats cool. Like all minor cult's & religions the issue is the interptation of the rules (bible) of said groups by the followers and not neccessarliy the high priests or head of parties etc.
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Post by HD Music & Test on Mar 17, 2023 14:29:17 GMT
Paul's point about the spin on the SR website I feel is good one and I'm not singling out SR at all here, the amount of marketing spin on audio products is just ridiculous at best.
Some of the white papers relating to cerain circuit designs and cables causes us no end of hilarity here, the problem is seperating the real reason why the company feels it works from the adertising bullshit they use to promote the products..
Being honest here they are a couple of products I've looked at recently (test wise) and I can't find a logical reason for the results they produce, make no mistake these items clearly work, but how and why?
Humm jury's out on that yet but what I can tell you is this those companies explainations on their websites for why it works bear zero resemblance to wht I seeing on my test equipment.
Be honest and say we know this good BUT we not sure why, rather than claiming, 'Tis on a moonlit night on the 11th reverse solstice in the deep dark Amazonian jungle where aliens congregate to celebrate the conjoining of Uranus to the third worm holm on the left that imbibes those equipment with quantum molecular structure realignment process that supersedes time & spaces and can turn even naim kit is musical expression of goodness
hey ho, back to the analyser for me..............
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Post by ajski2fly on Mar 17, 2023 15:12:23 GMT
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Post by ajski2fly on Mar 17, 2023 15:17:55 GMT
Just a thought, but suppose Peter Belt had floated the idea that " special" fuses could improve system-wide resolution (or whatever they claim now) by alteriing the way electricity propagates through changing the behavior of electrons via something called " inductive quantum coupling", and not only that, but this technology was so powerful that even an electrical chain several miles long could be fundamentally improved with nothing more than a single fuse. What would your reaction have been?   |
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Post by HD Music & Test on Mar 17, 2023 15:30:23 GMT
The one bouns Adrian of being able to model everything is I use a high BW TDR scope I can acutally 'see' any changes in the impendance pathway on any portion of the set up, can de embed each piece of the tramsmission line (cabling, inductors, resistors, caps, conectors) so any changes are measureable I can see them.
After this you can deiced to poceed with listening, each one of those types of thse types of cabling will sound different, how much, by what sonic traits they exhibit and any changes in amplitute well thats personal element, each one of those designs and construction of wire can easily be measured both statically (LRC) and dynamically VNA via S11 / S12 etc.
Each will have an impednace and inductance figure of merit also what these wire are connected to have a large bearing on how they will sound as well how we percieve the sonic differences well thats down to each of us.
Have a chat to SEAN @ IES (renaissence amps) you know him, he can explain to you this in great detail as they also make cable tesing equipment for RF.
Beltism is gunna get you!
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