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Post by John on May 22, 2023 7:35:41 GMT
I am using 9v at present but at some point I will move to 7.5v
I usually encourage others to get 7.5v
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atoz
Rank: Trio
Posts: 147
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Post by atoz on May 22, 2023 7:47:43 GMT
I am using 8v
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Post by rodders on May 22, 2023 10:00:22 GMT
Hi
I have been busy trying out the XLR-RCA adaptors compared to using the dedicated RCA outputs from the Gustard R26 outputs this morning. I know that the increased voltage will give more volume as you kindly pointed out and when changing over the connections I tried to compensate for this. Listening to Diana Krall Sway I was hearing more detail and texture on the brush on high hat at the beginning of the track with the XLR connection, the sound is just more alive.
I swapped over several times to confirm this, must try the Jennie test (my dear wife) for confirmation but she was busy doing shopping etc. I should try the test with using my single ended Avondale Grad One solid state preamp which hasn't been tweaked like the Conrad Johnson clone has by myself.
Next I tried disconnecting the BT antenna cable from the R26 vertical board with the streamer and LAN USB and Optical connections. I thought that the antenna would only be powered when the Bluetooth input was selected as the desired input, I think this is incorrect now. I placed a bit of heat shrink over the exposed antenna connector as I didn't want it to short anything on the motherboard. I just left the connector on the PCB open with no blanking.
The result, after trying to hear small difference's between XLR and RCA, this was quite a wow moment, disconnecting the BT antenna made a big difference in detail and space around instruments instantly. A definite improvement. It may be that the LB PCB is being affected or that the BT antenna degrades the onboard R26 clock?
If the BT antenna is making this much of a difference then it is logical to assume that further screening is a good move around the LB. My next move.
A higher spec/quality clock would be great and probably a good deal pricier, but looking at the job in hand, the LB PCB can't move much in the available space rotating it 90degrees isn't viable and trying it 180degrees means power and GPS and USB would all have to have much longer cable runs, I'd be concerned about the power affecting things. That's if I understand your description properly or do you mean the RF connector on the PCB could be altered to change orientation, which sounds more likely?
For now, I think I'll work on the premise that all these mods should be doable by any enthusiast even people who can't wield a soldering iron. Plug and play would be best and a good deal less risky.
I tried 5v from a Lipo04 battery bank to the LB and then 5.2v from a quality Allo Shanti LPS, then 7.5v from a decent Zero-Zone LPS (adjustable from 5v-12v) 7.5v sounded best giving a more solid soundstage.
Thanks for the quick reply, it's appreciated
Can others please try this disconnection of the bluetooth antenna internally, I'd like to hear back from you if it effects R26 owners without an internal Leo Bodnar clock!
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Post by HD Music & Test on May 22, 2023 10:29:26 GMT
All of the BT internal antennae in those Chifi dac's are just an afterthought its the coax from the board to the antenna that acts like a big RF pick up always have beneficial results in removing them. Clock wise you don't need a GPS slaved clock to go up the ladder, but I'm not going to do all of the work for you. Pre amplifier configuration and how the signal is conditioned plays a role in how the end result is. These days I design pre amplifiers as signal conditioners with adjustable gain, seem to be a beneficial philosophy. Some results I have obtained with some new ideas I have been playing about with, yes the frequency response is ruler flat and the noise floor for analogue is exceptionally low, however its very texturious and fluid sounding as we have mentioned many times before measurment and numbers only tell you a statisical story..
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Post by stellabagpuss on May 22, 2023 14:09:48 GMT
"Can other please try this disconnection of the bluetooth antenna internally, I'd like to hear back from others if it effects R26 owners without an internal Leo Bodnar clock"
I wish I could Rodders....I'm probably a week or two aware from having power back to my HI-FI set up, So I have a lot of Music and catching up to do, I actually have to rediscover my set-up, it's been out of action for 3 to 4 months!
As a little suggestion, you could considered adding a layer of Copper Tape (Or Even Tin Foil as your Scots!) in between your BT Socket and insulation tape, this will stop any BT leakage from the socket.
I'm on the fench with removal of BT, however I rarely us BT so if it brings gains. I may well do the same thing, keep marching on Rodders, I will catch up ASAP promise!
Damien
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Post by John on May 22, 2023 14:16:33 GMT
I use BT for YouTube and films
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Post by rodders on May 22, 2023 16:07:15 GMT
I don't suppose you can share these new ideas........ your preamp ideas sound very interesting.
Thanks for the heads up on BT antennas, it really has made a world of difference disconnecting the U.FL connector (after a quick search) from the R26 streamer board. Much better clarity.
Needing a clock to the ladder comment, I'm guessing that the syncing to GPS is not important to the end result.
Thanks again for your help.
Do you know Les Wolstenholme being a Whippet Thrasher!!! ? He's an old friend.
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Post by MartinT on May 22, 2023 16:13:46 GMT
I use BT for YouTube and films So do I on the X26 Pro, not willing to give that up completely, although I found a way of playing YT music only via Bubble. |
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Post by rodders on May 22, 2023 16:27:51 GMT
John, I to do like to use YT music vanced via LDAC (Vics idea) to play excellent playlists and to find new music. it's a good idea to find an alternative, better screened higher quality, RF cable for the streaming board BT connector to rear female SMA BT antenna the one supplied is terrible. This should enable the BT to be used as designed, unfortunately, Gustard haven't implemented software that shuts off the BT signal to antenna via any R26 firmware, and therefore optimise sound quality. I'll have a look but RG-174 is more like it or just wrap aluminium foil and PTFE tape around the cable to increase performance, this does work but I'd prefer a beefier 174 cable to work with. I am awaiting comments from any R26 users to see if disconnecting the BT cable from the streamer board makes a difference compared to internal LB users, like me..... smug smile, how do you do a smug smile with an emoji, the ones available just look menacing, oh this one looks OK  ? |
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Post by rodders on May 22, 2023 16:48:50 GMT
Damien
I'm so sorry to hear about your disconnection, must be frustrating.
The BT cable in R26 is not good for me at least with LB clock inside, needs addressing, can be upgraded to work fine with LAN/USB/I2S sound quality I'm sure.
But I really want to know if the BT antenna cable is just an issue with the LB inside the R26, the BT antenna's pathway takes it directly over the R26 clock and synthesiser which can't be good though. Disconnecting the antenna cable may reap dividends for all R26 users, other than the one's using BT!
I'll be trying several methods tomorrow to increase screening on the R26 from internal wiring power leakage etc, I'll document this as I feel it will be beneficial, as I have learnt from your experience, looking into the R26 and how it is engineered over the last few days has given me more ideas - much is based on your hard work.
Wish me luck
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Post by John on May 22, 2023 17:22:51 GMT
Martin
How are you getting Bubble to play YouTube
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Post by HD Music & Test on May 22, 2023 18:28:10 GMT
I don't suppose you can share these new ideas........ your preamp ideas sound very interesting. Thanks for the heads up on BT antennas, it really has made a world of difference disconnecting the U.FL connector (after a quick search) from the R26 streamer board. Much better clarity. Needing a clock to the ladder comment, I'm guessing that the syncing to GPS is not important to the end result. Thanks again for your help. Do you know Les Wolstenholme being a Whippet Thrasher!!! ? He's an old friend. Well Rodders, lets just say its bests quite a few of the big ticket items that are currently regarded as divinity status audio.
You will see this on the market early next year, it has been improved since those early stage measurments were taken, Realysm42 did have a listen at the weekend.
Clock wise, I have been playing around with them for over 20 years professionally as well as audio, let's just say that quality ultra low phase noise TXCO's are not 2 a penny imho only three manufacturing facilities on this planet can achieve the level of phase noise that only Holzworthy/Keysight UXA/Anritsu/Rhode & Schwarz FSW can achieve and this can only be reached by using cross correlation methodolgy.
These 'clocks' on there own are four figures if you have an MOQ of 120 of them (lol) the one I am currently working on has a -126dBc @ 1hz and gets exceptionally close to the limit of my PN analyser around -200dBc.
Jitter is measured in time deviation
Phase Noise is measured with frequency variations
I would suggest using Kapton tape on the cable followed by a copper foil tape if you can't stretch to quality cable Rodders.
Les W lovely fellow and nice chap to chat to (in the day) if a little mis guided on the whippet thrasher asistance front 
Lots to be achieved on that dac, have completed eight of them now and a couple to quite serious levels as well.
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Post by MartinT on May 22, 2023 18:36:42 GMT
How are you getting Bubble to play YouTube Oh gawd, now you want me to do that remembering stuff! You go into Devices and turn on the Audio Cast slider. Then play YouTube on the app. I can't remember if anything else was needed. It worked well, sending the audio via wi-fi rather than Bluetooth. At least, it worked for DLNA. Don't know what you do for the Zen. |
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Post by rodders on May 26, 2023 8:20:34 GMT
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Post by HD Music & Test on May 26, 2023 8:27:58 GMT
Yes I contributed on that one as well lol
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Post by rodders on May 29, 2023 10:23:43 GMT
  Here's the LB clock inside the R26, trying out various shielding tweaks to improve the LB performance. So far a small self adhesive damping pad made from dense neoprene foam works well at improving everything in the sound. I also have a crude nylon cap covered in aluminium tape and grounded/connected to the PCB ground on the LB, this helps with reducing noise which in effect allows more detail and space around instruments. The BNC to male MCX R26 motherboard cable is an AliE RG-402 cable seems to work well being around 180mm. Next thing is to try a full PCB shield around the LB as well as a better quality LPS. |
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Post by John on May 29, 2023 12:48:34 GMT
Good to see you keep pushing things further
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Post by rodders on Jun 3, 2023 10:11:21 GMT
  Brings me back to Blue Peter!!! Progress Report Leo Bodnar clock inside R26 - full shield around PCB I did add another piece of aluminium tape directly under the LB clock chip before trying the full wrap, seemed to tidy the sound further. (see first pic) I made up the full sleeve shield using 0.5mm card with aluminium tape adhered to one side and wrapped around edges. This was Lidl beer six pack packaging, no expense spared, seriously though, it's good quality strong board with a printed side which enables the tape to be peeled off if you make a mistake). Size of shield was 84.5x51mm x2 top and bottom, 15x84.5mm x2 sides. LB machined end plates were used as templates before getting a scalpel out to cut the holes, and the card was trimmed to size after cutting all the apertures to 16x 51mm before wrapping with aluminium tape. I used the same principle of construction as the LB PCB Ali extrusion and relied on the clamping nuts on the BNCs and antenna to secure the ends. This way the PCB is completely wrapped in shielding and reasonably easily slid out once one end is released by unscrewing the nut/s. Just so we are clear, the reason I have to make a new shield from scratch, the LB supplied sleeve in extruded aluminium is just too tall to get into the R26. (Available height in the area above the clocks' motherboard connection is just 19mm not 23mm - LB finished product) On first listen there wasn't a huge difference, this may be because I'd already applied direct shielding cup on top of the LB clock chip and then below as well as the damping pad adhered onto the clock chip and that's given the lion share of any perceivable improvement. These mods was left in place under the full wrap. If anything I'd say the sound was slightly more solid. I have to give it a few days listen now to do the mod justice and listen to the usual suspects..... On a footnote, I don't think mentioned, I did try a very good audio LPS on the LB, one from an Avondale Preamp which I had to use a buck convertor to ramp down the DC output to 7.5v from 18v, which isn't ideal, but sure enough with a more audio refined power supply, (Les W uses many tricks of his trade to gain better sound) there was more solidity to the sound, you were more drawn into what was being presented, it was subtle but you hear the difference when the ZeroZone is put back in. However, these Avondale LPS's aren't available off the shelf, if they were they would be pricey. I would still say that the LB is not that fussy over power unlike other components can be. I just wanted to hear the difference that a really well designed audio LPS can make. I might try a SMPS! |
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Post by rodders on Jun 3, 2023 10:20:13 GMT
There have been other forums that mention how the BNC connections benefit from wrapping conductive tape around the actual connector to help screening.
Which leads me to think that the BNC connector on the LB, isn't the ideal connector to be used here. If it is so sensitive to extra screening, SMA and MCX seem to be the preferred connectors, certainly for internal connection, the MCX connector on the R26 motherboard is an extremely tight fit which is good.
I can understand why Leo Bodnar have used the BNC as the go to 'industry standard' connection, it's robust and quick to connect, especially when being used in the field. But is it the best for signal transference......
More trials later when the alternative connectors arrive, this means transplanting PCB connectors which should be fun.
My system with internal LB clock and full shielding keeps giving, I may try some alternative speakers now, more up to date, more resolving.
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Post by John on Jun 3, 2023 13:00:49 GMT
I might try to see if We can do this
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