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Post by karatestu on Dec 2, 2022 21:01:50 GMT
I see my musical reproduction system much the same as my life. Simple is best, I can't be doing with all the worry about the ins and outs of the far end of a fart. I can see my time on this forum coming to end because there is so much content about making your system as complicated as possible. The people who sell this sort of new devilry must really love this place.
I've been biting my tongue far too long. Audiophile fuses, grounding boxes etc etc etc. My god, I want to cook myself.
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Post by nicholas on Dec 2, 2022 21:13:27 GMT
Simple is good... enjoy your music in whatever form you find it.
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Post by John on Dec 2, 2022 21:15:04 GMT
I hope not I always liked reading your DIY exploits
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Post by MartinT on Dec 2, 2022 21:22:00 GMT
I like reading your exploits, too.
As for complicated - the basic building blocks are simple, the ways to improve them also simple once you've mastered what the hell needs doing. Learning is hard, executing it is straightforward.
The result justifies all the effort.
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Post by julesd68 on Dec 2, 2022 21:29:19 GMT
A simple system Vs a complex system - neither is intrinsically right or wrong. It's about the end result and how much pleasure it brings you. Each to their own and vive la difference.
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Post by petea on Dec 2, 2022 21:31:23 GMT
I too find your designs and construction interesting, so please keep posting them.
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Post by brian2957 on Dec 3, 2022 9:25:20 GMT
Yup keep posting mate. It doesn't matter how simple or complicated your system is, as long as you enjoy it. I keep my system pretty simple these days and listen to it most days. This is a diverse and friendly forum and I like reading all the posts whether it's DIY or more complicated systems. I don't post much about my system these days but do enjoy the banter on the forum
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Post by Slinger on Dec 3, 2022 9:53:20 GMT
There's more than one way to flay a feline.
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Post by MikeMusic on Dec 3, 2022 10:49:37 GMT
I have a similar problem - wanting to keep my system as simple as possible - and - to allow the best sound from it The best sound is what I want most of all. I've seen Martin's system up close and it takes a while to comprehend the bits, connections and what they do The sound is great To build it from scratch would take some time and effort but like most systems it started small, simple and grew to the multiple box system it has become The music is what we're after - preferably in black
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Post by ajski2fly on Dec 3, 2022 11:04:20 GMT
I see my musical reproduction system much the same as my life. Simple is best, I can't be doing with all the worry about the ins and outs of the far end of a fart. I can see my time on this forum coming to end because there is so much content about making your system as complicated as possible. The people who sell this sort of new devilry must really love this place. I've been biting my tongue far too long. Audiophile fuses, grounding boxes etc etc etc. My god, I want to cook myself. I have a friend who has gradually gone up the HiFi/Audion ladder of expense in recent years, originally his system was a moderate cost, mainly from 2nd hand gear, probably about £5-6k outlay for speakers, amp, CDP and TT. Over the last 8 years this has evolved through upgrade after upgrade into a system at least 10 times the cost, much more if purchased new. What I found interesting was at the start he poo-poo'd the benefits of costly cables(interconnects and speaker), speaker isolation stands, mains cleaning(whether dedicated, transformers, or noise removal). Recenly a big speaker and amp upgrade was undertaken, very soon, cables, mains clean up, speaker isolation platforms and other bits came along as well. His reasoning was the system now enables him to hear the improvements(difference) of each change, he argues definitely not psychological. I am pretty sure there was an element of dealer psychology pressure involved, you know "Nearly all my other customers with systems at this level can hear the difference and have purchased this or that, it really makes a difference". So what's my opinion? Well it is not black and white, I have heard various improvements in my friends systems, and my own, as components have come and gone, cables changed and stands, whether they are worth the cost really depends upon if you hear definite improvements and music listening is a major hobby, and obviously can afford it. I have heard significant improvements in my own system recently by just installing a Terrelium Q Ultra Black II RCAs from pre to main amp, purchased secondhand it cost £245, is it worth it, I have to say yes, would a £1K cable give me more, I am not so sure, I think the VFM question then comes into play. For most a Terrelium Q Ultra Black II RCA cable, or similar, is not simple solution compared to a pair of £10 RCA leads, or is it? I have a dedicated mains spur to my hifi (done when we improved our house) and this definitely is an improvement from the usual household ring set up, I can also hear an improvement when the 230V power is coming direct from the Inverter and our Batteries(Solar Storage) and not the grid. Would I go one step further and put in for example a Shunyata Research £2.5-5K mains filter box in, I really do not know, it would be a big investment in relation to the cost of my system as it stands, but if the difference was outstanding and if I could afford it then perhaps I would do so. But again the question is that a simple solution or not, it depends on your view I think. So back to the Simple System, this really depends on many factors, I believe there are some very high-end/expensive gear out there that offer one or two box solutions which address some or many of the issues touched on, and with some good cables give astounding results if set up correctly in a room, so this could be viewed as simple, albeit costly. Alternatively then one could say a simple system is some speakers, amp and a front end just plugged up together with whatever was to hand and relatively cheap, it would reproduce sound, whether it would sound musical and satisfy the listener is subjective, just the same as with the very much more expensive system. In between these is the carefully selected components to build a system with various forms of experimentation, cables, mains, stands, isolation, room treatment and so on to get the most from it. All of these have merit it really depends on the listener and what is VFM for that individual. By the way I hope you stay around, I also enjoy your DIY threads.
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Post by HD Music & Test on Dec 3, 2022 11:24:17 GMT
Remember, do not loose sight of the objective: Thrashing whippets it what it's all about ask any Sailsbury cultist. The rest of us like music, however you do it as long as it works for you and puts a smile on your face that's all that matters. Some folks have OCD and it eats away at them, even with the slightest issues, others will use a worn cartridge until the cows come home. A few chaps throw money in pot loads at what they consider a 'problem' rather than look at the solution, others use sticking plastics and some are just plain squeakers and use terms like' Aye lad, I could fed two dozen wippets, drive to mars and throw a slap up meal for the entire family at Missus Miggins pie shop for thruppence hapnee' Some prefer working it out for themselves, more power to them. I have a slighty different approach due to the work envirnoment we occupy, I can look geniuenly at the 'audiofool bullshite' thats out there and delve very deep into its basic structure and realistically measure what the claims are, a lot of the time it's amusing, some times its enlightening, however all of the finds have come from NON audio EE, now isn't that something? Here's a answer for a KIS system question: I could live with just three boxes (an off shelf purchase), MSB ref with the internal streamer module, direct into one of our dual mono stereo amp chassis and a pair of Tad E1-Tx's. It rocks, it plays MUSIC and its three dimesional and it works so well at ANY volume level. Yes you can add grounding/mains conditioning etc to imporve as you could with ANY system.
But on its own its pretty damn decent.
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Post by MartinT on Dec 3, 2022 12:18:50 GMT
Fundamentally, I have the following:
Router, Streamer, DDC/DAC, Power Amp, Speakers.
Even without anything else, it would sound decent. With enhancements, it sounds superb.
That's the difference and I wouldn't be without it. I still think of it as a simple, single-source system, though.
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Post by Slinger on Dec 3, 2022 12:34:14 GMT
Fundamentally, I have the following: Router, Streamer, DDC/DAC, Power Amp, Speakers. Even without anything else, it would sound decent. With enhancements, it sounds superb. That's the difference and I wouldn't be without it. I still think of it as a simple, single-source system, though. This is a simple picture of a few lads having a bit of a horse ride by the river...
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Post by julesd68 on Dec 3, 2022 12:46:39 GMT
Something to remember about "better" - we are all chasing an ideal sound that exists in our heads with a system tuned to our preferences.
Mr Smith has spent 20k on a system that has a few components and a boxtastic plethora of the latest gadgets and tweaks. He loves his system.
Mr Jones has four components that he spent 20k on and on hearing Mr Smith's system smugly notes to himself how much he prefers the sound of his system for the same outlay.
Neither can claim that their approach is fundamentally superior.
YMMV #chacun à son goût
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Post by ant on Dec 3, 2022 12:47:40 GMT
I think mine is pretty simple.
I have a pair of speakers i built myself that are as simple as possible. Bloody great big 15" fane 15-300tc in a ruddy great big box with an aperiodic vent in it, no crossover at all.
A pass f5 power amp which is a very simple amp, a pass b1 which is also very simple, anyone can build an f5 and b1.
A cole lcr phono stage which is not quite as simple, but i was given it for nothing as it was broken and had to be fixed and several turntables which i just like playing with. I have one of my own type 3b lencos, the arm on that i built myself, and a vm750sh moving magnet so thats simple aswell.
Others are a jvc ql-y5f which my wife uses, that has a benedict audio hothead phono stage for it, a roksan xerxes which i fixed, a jvc ql-y3f which was broken so i bought it and fixed it, a technics sl150 which was cheap so i bought it on a whim, and my jbe series 3 and air bearing arm which means alot to me and i cant bring myself to sell.
this isnt complicated, its just hoarding...
The balanced mains unit i built myself, that is only because i had the bits to do it, it wasnt something i was actively looking at at the time.
Cyrus Cd player was bought only because it was cheap and the earlier one packed in, streaming is a 100 quid tablet that i bought for the kids during lockdown so there were enough machines for them all to get on teams for school at the same time.
that tablet was barely used since, so i just downloaded tidal and plugged it into an old unused dac.
Cables are any old shite, speaker cables are some fisual stuff at 4 quid a metre which ive only just got, and only because i found the insulation was falling off the old stuff and i got paranoid about it shorting.
The actual connected up system is the bare bones of what i need, there is nothing that is not required apart from the bmu i built.
There are no accessories at all in there, no isolating feet, old pasta things whatever they are called (i cant remember what they are called, somebody will know), Grounding boxes, level attenuators, those houdini cartridge isolators, special cables, special phono plugs, input shorting plugs, record weights, or any other little extras.
There are a million little extras you can use to overcomplicate things, just because you can, doesnt mean you need to
You know that stu, the endless box swapping and tweakery and magic dust isnt for some people and is for others its up to the individual.
I am perfectly happy to use my proper system, or plug my b&w p5 cans into my phone when i cant
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Post by John on Dec 3, 2022 13:45:46 GMT
As long as you enjoy the music you like it really does not matter if it's cheap expensive complicated or simple
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Post by mattspl on Dec 3, 2022 14:39:29 GMT
I could quite happily live with just my Resolution Audio Cantata and PMC AML1’s.
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Post by karatestu on Dec 3, 2022 21:24:02 GMT
We (me and the kids) are currently listening to Sly and the family Stone through a JBL charge 5 Bluetooth speaker. I couldn't want for more and we are having a ball. I just can't be doing with the boolox that surrounds this hobby. You must spend the most and have the most expensive system known to man otherwise you are insignificant at most. Fuck that. Hate it more than anything and unfortunately this forum seems to be full of expensive foo .
Just because we can't afford or won't pay out for these audio trinkets that doesn't mean we can't enjoy the music just the same.
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Post by mattspl on Dec 3, 2022 21:50:17 GMT
We (me and the kids) are currently listening to Sly and the family Stone through a JBL charge 5 Bluetooth speaker. I couldn't want for more and we are having a ball. I just can't be doing with the boolox that surrounds this hobby. You must spend the most and have the most expensive system known to man otherwise you are insignificant at most. Fuck that. Hate it more than anything and unfortunately this forum seems to be full of expensive foo . Just because we can't afford or won't pay out for these audio trinkets that doesn't mean we can't enjoy the music just the same. This forum does have more, say, open minded tweakers than other forums, but I have also found the other members here much more welcoming and less pretentious than other forums. I’d rather read other members wild and wacky exploits into Hifi than be verbally abused which has happened on another forum when I tried to carry out a very basic experiment using only REW and swapping fuses. I do agree Hifi in general has gone absolutely ridiculous in terms of pricing though. A 6 or 10 grand speaker only gets you a wooden box and a few hundred quid worth of drivers. One pair of speakers from a relatively new company were £10k a few years ago, now they cost over £20k.
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Post by nicholas on Dec 3, 2022 22:05:38 GMT
We (me and the kids) are currently listening to Sly and the family Stone through a JBL charge 5 Bluetooth speaker. I couldn't want for more and we are having a ball. I just can't be doing with the boolox that surrounds this hobby. You must spend the most and have the most expensive system known to man otherwise you are insignificant at most. Fuck that. Hate it more than anything and unfortunately this forum seems to be full of expensive foo . Just because we can't afford or won't pay out for these audio trinkets that doesn't mean we can't enjoy the music just the same. Enjoyment is what it's all about... well done.
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