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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 9:24:36 GMT
This is a subject that rears it's ugly head regularly on other forums but deserves another airing on TAS.
I have been buying a lot of new vinyl over the last few years partly due to the diminishing availability of minty used product and partly due to the increasing catalogue of new titles and reissues. However like the used market prices have increased especially for standard non-audiophile vinyl. Quality of mastering can vary from so so to superb but so often things go wrong at the pressing stage. I have had too many bad pressings of late even if it is only a one off fault which has involved considerable time spent on returning and reordering product. One sobering thought on price is that allowing for inflation since 1963 a copy of 'Please Please Me' was equivalent to approx £25 today.
Would like to know members thoughts on vinyl pricing and their experiences with quality. I don't think things are worse than the 70s (but that isn't saying much) although quieter vinyl formulas are used. The most consistent and quietest vinyl I have found has been Mobile Fidelity and Speakers Corner yet other records produced at the same pressing plants (RTI and Pallas) can vary greatly in quality.
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Post by Pinch on Sept 15, 2014 9:31:38 GMT
My experience has been somewhat contrary to what one might expect:
For new records of old music from big or supposed 'audiophile' labels, the pressing quality is pretty patchy.
For new records of new music from small labels which specialise in vinyl, the pressing quality is very good.
The price of the former is usually around £20, or a little more, while the price of the latter can vary, but I tend to pick things around the £15 mark.
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 15, 2014 12:09:50 GMT
I buy 2nd hand and usually get a good album
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Post by MartinT on Sept 15, 2014 12:25:14 GMT
I've had very few duffers, in the main the pressings are fine. SQ varies a lot, though. Like Mike, I've had great success buying used vinyl on eBay.
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Post by ChrisB on Sept 15, 2014 12:47:14 GMT
I very rarely buy new vinyl nowadays mainly because of the price:quality relationship.
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 15, 2014 17:05:31 GMT
This is a timely new thread - I've just ordered an Audio Fidelity and a Back to black release so will report back when I receive them.
A friend of mine gave me his Amy Winehouse 180g to clean which was brand new but covered in bad hairlines - think the inner they issued it in must have been sand-paper! My NEMS 180g Black sabbath vol4 also had plenty of light hairlines but was actually a remarkably quiet surface.
Generally speaking I look to buy an original if I can afford it or there's a good reason not to. I'm only interested in buying these new versions if the sound quality is at least as good as the original and has been mastered from the analogue tapes. Sometimes this is very difficult to assess with lots of conflicting opinions and information as I found out when looking to complete my Sabbath collection.
Even though the price of new vinyl can be pricey, they can be cheaper than some originals which will be difficult to obtain in the near mint condition I would like. I've found its worth shopping around a bit for best prices. I would like to find a good, reliable supplier with decent prices. I'm always happy not to pay rock-bottom prices in exchange for good customer service.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 19:31:03 GMT
A few instances of new vinyl I would recommend on SQ with warnings about pressing defects where appropriate.
I do tend to duplicate on favourites if a good all analogue reissue is released so have a basis for comparison for most.
Back To Black (Universal) have had a number of good sounding releases recently - Liege and Lief, North Star Grassman And The Ravens and I Want To See The bright Lights Tonight all sound superb and nice clean pressings. Also a couple Of Caravan reissues - If I Could Do It All Over Again... is AAA but could be better as it is cut at a rather low level but try finding a clean original. Just released Land Of Grey And Pink sounds very good but is likely from a hi -res source as no mastering claims are made. Had some pressing issues with If I Could Do It All Over Again...
Though very expensive I would highly recommend the Mo-Fi Dylan releases mostly at 45 rpm. Highway 61 and Blonde On Blonde are spectacularly good and show stereo done well for these is as good as the Mono.
The latest Robert Plant - Lullaby And The Ceaseless Roar is a fine sounding modern recording on superbly quiet Pallas vinyl. Also latest Tom Petty album on similarly well pressed double vinyl.
The new Steve Wilson Mix of a Passion Play is great sounding but had pressing issues. Two unplayable copies due to scratches and few infrequent nasty sounds on the last keeper copy. Also took 3 copies to get a clean version of Elvis Costello All this Useless Beauty on MOV.
Other recommendations for sound and pressing - Car Wheels On A Grave Road (MOV). Anne Bisson, Stories From The Tree Tops and Blue Mind. Pink Floyd, The Division Bell.
Also recommendation for recent Clapton Blues reissues 'From The Cradle' and 'Riding With the King' on double vinyl - big improvement over poor sounding single disc original issues.
Also mention for the spectacularly good pressings from 'Let Them Eat vinyl' even if these are bootleg style radio broadcasts of less than studio SQ. They ones I bought by Stevie nicks and Patti Smith actually sound surprisingly good.
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 15, 2014 20:22:50 GMT
Paul, don't know if you can help with this - I would like a copy of 'Rumours' & know there were some issues about quality of the 45rpm versions if bought from US or Europe, but am I right in thinking that the 33rpm version that I was going to get isn't affected this way?
Not sure if Sabbath is your kind of thing, but am also wondering if you have heard the Rhino pressing of 'Paranoid' which seems to get mixed reviews … cheers.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2014 20:50:00 GMT
Paul, don't know if you can help with this - I would like a copy of 'Rumours' & know there were some issues about quality of the 45rpm versions if bought from US or Europe, but am I right in thinking that the 33rpm version that I was going to get isn't affected this way? Not sure if Sabbath is your kind of thing, but am also wondering if you have heard the Rhino pressing of 'Paranoid' which seems to get mixed reviews … cheers. I have heard of pressing issues with the 33 rpm. There were two versions of the 45 rpm pressed both at Pallas. One is for US and uses the Hoffman Grey mastering and other was thought to be digitally sourced. Diverse Vinyl have the US 45 rpm listed and this is the one to go for. My pressing is flawless. www.diversevinyl.com/item.php?id=bc332be3c368d63051d40177f2e6d8b6 45 rpm www.diversevinyl.com/item.php?id=28543a929f93fa706dc410fcc55cc555 33rpm |
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Post by MartinT on Sept 15, 2014 21:09:49 GMT
The original pressings of the first four Sabbath albums are all pretty good so I've never felt the need to buy new pressings.
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 15, 2014 21:38:39 GMT
The original pressings of the first four Sabbath albums are all pretty good so I've never felt the need to buy new pressings. If I had all original pressings I wouldn't feel the need either - it's purely a cost thing - original pressings (even NEMS) can go for very high prices nowadays. And then you have the challenge of finding something that hasn't been played to death ... I was very lucky to get the first lp and 'Bloody Sabbath' on WWA at sensible prices. I now have a quirky mixture of WWA / NEMS re-issue / NEMS 180g releases. |
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 15, 2014 21:42:15 GMT
Paul, don't know if you can help with this - I would like a copy of 'Rumours' & know there were some issues about quality of the 45rpm versions if bought from US or Europe, but am I right in thinking that the 33rpm version that I was going to get isn't affected this way? Not sure if Sabbath is your kind of thing, but am also wondering if you have heard the Rhino pressing of 'Paranoid' which seems to get mixed reviews … cheers. I have heard of pressing issues with the 33 rpm. There were two versions of the 45 rpm pressed both at Pallas. One is for US and uses the Hoffman Grey mastering and other was thought to be digitally sourced. Diverse Vinyl have the US 45 rpm listed and this is the one to go for. My pressing is flawless. www.diversevinyl.com/item.php?id=bc332be3c368d63051d40177f2e6d8b6 45 rpm www.diversevinyl.com/item.php?id=28543a929f93fa706dc410fcc55cc555 33rpm Yes I'd like the 45rpm but my pocket doesn't stretch to it just now. I believe the Hoffman Grey mastering is also on the Reprise 33rpm but not the earlier Rhino 33rpm that Diverse have. Maybe they made a mistake in that listing ... Who knows in the minefield that is re-mastered vinyl ... |
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Post by ChrisB on Sept 15, 2014 21:48:59 GMT
Mad isn't it?
I remember when the 1980's NEMS pressings came out they were £1.99 each and £2.99 for 'We Sold Our Souls For Rock & Roll'!
Waiting at a bus stop after a record buying trip, I bumped into a girl I knew from school and she asked me what I'd been buying "Six Black Sabbath albums" says I! I'd bought the first four and 'Never Say Die' and 'Technical Ecstasy' - the Vertigos were £2.99.
She didn't talk to me much after that!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 6:55:07 GMT
Yes I'd like the 45rpm but my pocket doesn't stretch to it just now. I believe the Hoffman Grey mastering is also on the Reprise 33rpm but not the earlier Rhino 33rpm that Diverse have. Maybe they made a mistake in that listing ... Who knows in the minefield that is re-mastered vinyl ... The 33 rpm I linked to is the Hoffman / Grey pressing according to the description. Give Diverse a ring to confirm. |
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mj
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Post by mj on Sept 16, 2014 22:12:31 GMT
I quite recently (stupidly) sold off all of my vinyl and am now laboriously going through the process of building up my collection again. I have found that overall, prices are very reasonable (£10 - 15 for a new release album) but the pressing quality generally ranges from mediocre to lamentable. So far month I have bought 7 albums, 2 of which I would class as perfect, 2 as acceptable and 3 had to be returned. This has been typical over the last 3 months. Am waiting on delivery of 2 more, hopefully one is a keeper  Very poor really. If we had been talking about consumer electronics here, the manufacturer would be rapidly heading out of business. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2014 22:59:50 GMT
Would be helpful if titles with dodgy pressing quality are named.
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Post by MikeMusic on Sept 17, 2014 8:22:41 GMT
Agreed !!
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Post by daytona600 on Sept 17, 2014 12:37:41 GMT
Only really four pressing plants in the world at least the ones used by the Audiophile labels
US QRP quality record pressings & RTI record technology , EU pallas & RT ( part of Mov ) & Optimal in germany are also very good
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Post by julesd68 on Sept 19, 2014 16:57:41 GMT
Are there such things as true analogue remasters nowadays?
For example, the 'Made in Japan' 2014 says - 'audio is remastered from the original 1972 analogue stereo master and cut at Abbey Road Studios'.
That all sounds well and good but is in the end somewhat ambiguous - I wonder if the cut is done from a digital or an analogue master? I can imagine a lot of remastering is done from analogue tapes which are then taken into the digital domain and worked on from there to create a new digital master …
Record companies have learnt that most people into vinyl don't want to see 'digitally remastered' on their expensive 180g vinyl but that's probably what's going on.
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Post by MartinT on Sept 19, 2014 18:29:21 GMT
I think a lot of them are pressed from a digital master nowadays.
Incidentally, I opened the shrink wrap from Steely Dan - Greatest Hits last night and the pressing was excellent with almost no surface noise. That's good considering a day or two in a Nagaoka anti-static inner sleeve usually renders them even quieter.
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